headers and starters - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

78chevstepside · 07-08-2003, 05:11 PM

Anyone have a solution for heat on the starter and solenoid from headers? My 78 wont start after even short trips. I replaced the starter and solenoid with a lifetime warranty unit. I have a heat shield on the soleniod(doesnt help). I have had headers for a long time and it always started slow when hot(but it always started). I have heavy duty battery cables, recently new battery.The ford solenoid trick doesnt work niether my brother -in-law wasted alot of time on the idea.

jay

gldevall · 07-08-2003, 08:44 PM

How you tried a mini starter?

DrMaserati · 07-09-2003, 01:11 AM

Is your starter shimmed for proper flywheel engagement? It may be binding, and have nothing to do with heat.

JP

Mike76251 · 07-09-2003, 04:36 AM

That is a strange one....
I have a NAPA (USA rebuilt) full size starter and one of those Moroso heat shields and my headers never overheat the starter.

78chevstepside · 07-09-2003, 04:18 PM

IT starts fine when cold. The hotter the engine gets the harder it starts.( till it wont turn over till it cools down). Iam positive its shimed just fine. A small starter may be the trick. I f a starter wasnt shimed right iam guessing it would malfunction all the time.

.

jay

44th Miss Inf · 07-09-2003, 05:55 PM

78 Step,
The Ford solenoid should have worked. It's about a 30 minute job, at the most, and no need to buy the expensive 'kits' to do it. I run them on almost all of my vehicles. (Even my BBC with mini starter)

It takes 4 amps to energize where the GM hot takes up to 60. Also it doesn't have a 'hot' wire down by your headers.

Also, even if it is a "lifetime" warranty starter, most places just replace what needs to be replaced to get them going. Find you a 'hole in the wall' starter/alternator place, and tell him to put some of the better components in it instead of the standard rebuild stuff.

Good luck.

Virgil

onetoncrewcab · 07-09-2003, 06:47 PM

What about wrapping the headers with that header wrap?
Mike

allthrtl · 07-09-2003, 07:39 PM

I don't personally think it's a starter issue.....I've run these trucks with headers for years and never had any problems....Look harder, I think you have other problems....

Michael

454Sub · 07-09-2003, 10:32 PM

I've been running headers on my 454 Suburban for a couple years, absolutely no problem, and this is in Houston TX and with a hot cam.
What I suspect is a wiring problem with your truck. I had a Grand National that wouldn't start after just a few minutes of running. After replacing the starter and solenoid I traced the wires. Turned out someone had wired in a shut-off switch as an anti-theft measure (ironically, it turned out to have been a stolen car). They used 14 gauge wire, and added about 6 feet to the lead to the solenoid. So there wasn't enough current to jump the solenoid if the engine was even moderately warm. May not be your exact problem but check all the wiring to you starter and solenoid, including the starter switch in the column. Any crimped or soldered joints are suspicious, and any added wire should be scrutinized. A GM truck with headers should start easily every time, headers or not.
Jeff

DrMaserati · 07-10-2003, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 78chevstepside
I f a starter wasnt shimed right iam guessing it would malfunction all the time. jay

Not necessarily. When things get hot they expand, and tolerances close up. It may have just enough clearance not to bind when cold. An easy test would be to loosen the starter slightly when it's hot and try it. If that works, then you need more shim.

And I think 454Sub has some very good suggestions as well.

CustomChevy · 07-10-2003, 04:49 AM

Well, you can do 2 things to remedy your problem.

1. Header wrap (i.e. DEI-010110 at Summit)
2. Starter wrap (i.e. DEI-010402 at Summit)

Those are by Design Engineering. It's just one example, there are numerous brands out there. Good luck!!

*1FaastC10* · 07-10-2003, 08:13 AM

check the battery. i had a similar problem with my C10, turned out to be dead cells in the battery.

BigRed · 07-10-2003, 10:59 AM

I agree with 44 Miss Inf about the remote solenoid. I put a couple links in this thread that would tell you how to easily install one. Not an expensive or time consuming fix to see if that's your problem.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...threadid=59169

44th Miss Inf · 07-10-2003, 04:54 PM

BigRed,
I use the one from the Street Rod link. That way only 1 wire going to the starter, and it is not energized except during cranking.

Virgil

78chevstepside · 07-10-2003, 05:24 PM

I fixed the problem. I went and bought a heat sheild insulation wrap. I installed that and it improved some but not all the way. Then i really started lookin. I noticed that the ground strap for the motor( not the main ground on the battery) was melted in two from cranking on the starter when it was too hot. So I replaced that and it cured the problem. Maybe that was the only problem to start with. Thanks for your peoples help :p

jay

44th Miss Inf · 07-10-2003, 05:52 PM

Glad to hear that you are back up and running. Sorry for getting off topic with the remote solenoid .

Virgil

07-08-2003, 05:11 PM	#1
78chevstepside Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: lacenter, washington Posts: 718	headers and starters Anyone have a solution for heat on the starter and solenoid from headers? My 78 wont start after even short trips. I replaced the starter and solenoid with a lifetime warranty unit. I have a heat shield on the soleniod(doesnt help). I have had headers for a long time and it always started slow when hot(but it always started). I have heavy duty battery cables, recently new battery.The ford solenoid trick doesnt work niether my brother -in-law wasted alot of time on the idea.jay

07-08-2003, 08:44 PM	#2
gldevall Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Walker, LA Posts: 2,925	How you tried a mini starter? __________________ Gary -1986 SWB: lowered 4/6, SOLD!!! -Best 1/4 mile: 14.51 @ 91.01 MPH -2001 Pewter Tahoe, billet grill, Corsa Sport Cat-back, K&N FIPK SOLD!!! -2004 Z-71 Extended cab with a flowmaster, BDS 6.5", 3" BL, 35x12.5x18 Trail Grapplers on Pro-Comp 18x9 wheels

07-09-2003, 01:11 AM	#3
DrMaserati Village Curmudgeon Join Date: May 2003 Location: Salem, OR Posts: 75	Is your starter shimmed for proper flywheel engagement? It may be binding, and have nothing to do with heat. JP __________________ 78 Chevy K30 duallie, 454, TH400 78 IH Scout II, 4X4, 345, 727TF 76 IH Scout II, 4X4, 345, 727TF 65 IH 1200C pickup, 4X4, 345, 4 spd 48 IH KB-8-F, RD-450, 5 spd, 35,000 GVW (a REAL truck) "Life is too short to drink cheap beer." Harry S. Truman

07-09-2003, 06:47 PM	#7
onetoncrewcab One of my kids. Cute eh? Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Mitchell, SD Posts: 1,286	What about wrapping the headers with that header wrap? Mike __________________ If a kid asks where rain comes from, I think a cute thing to tell him is “God is crying.” And if he asks why God is crying, another cute thing to tell him is “Probably because of something you did. John 3:16 2006 Chevy HHR 2000 Dodge Durango 1985 Jeep CJ-7 1970 Chevy Pickup

07-09-2003, 07:39 PM	#8
allthrtl Available for Adoption Join Date: May 2003 Location: Lubbock Tx Posts: 177	I don't personally think it's a starter issue.....I've run these trucks with headers for years and never had any problems....Look harder, I think you have other problems.... Michael __________________ 1983 C10 SWB 2001 Silverado SWB 1995 Corvette

07-09-2003, 04:36 AM	#4
Mike76251 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 2,499	That is a strange one.... I have a NAPA (USA rebuilt) full size starter and one of those Moroso heat shields and my headers never overheat the starter.

07-09-2003, 04:18 PM	#5
78chevstepside Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: lacenter, washington Posts: 718	IT starts fine when cold. The hotter the engine gets the harder it starts.( till it wont turn over till it cools down). Iam positive its shimed just fine. A small starter may be the trick. I f a starter wasnt shimed right iam guessing it would malfunction all the time. . jay

07-09-2003, 05:55 PM	#6
44th Miss Inf Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Liberty, Mississippi Posts: 672	78 Step, The Ford solenoid should have worked. It's about a 30 minute job, at the most, and no need to buy the expensive 'kits' to do it. I run them on almost all of my vehicles. (Even my BBC with mini starter) It takes 4 amps to energize where the GM hot takes up to 60. Also it doesn't have a 'hot' wire down by your headers. Also, even if it is a "lifetime" warranty starter, most places just replace what needs to be replaced to get them going. Find you a 'hole in the wall' starter/alternator place, and tell him to put some of the better components in it instead of the standard rebuild stuff. Good luck. Virgil

07-09-2003, 10:32 PM	#9
454Sub Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1	I've been running headers on my 454 Suburban for a couple years, absolutely no problem, and this is in Houston TX and with a hot cam. What I suspect is a wiring problem with your truck. I had a Grand National that wouldn't start after just a few minutes of running. After replacing the starter and solenoid I traced the wires. Turned out someone had wired in a shut-off switch as an anti-theft measure (ironically, it turned out to have been a stolen car). They used 14 gauge wire, and added about 6 feet to the lead to the solenoid. So there wasn't enough current to jump the solenoid if the engine was even moderately warm. May not be your exact problem but check all the wiring to you starter and solenoid, including the starter switch in the column. Any crimped or soldered joints are suspicious, and any added wire should be scrutinized. A GM truck with headers should start easily every time, headers or not. Jeff

07-10-2003, 04:49 AM	#11
CustomChevy Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 461	Well, you can do 2 things to remedy your problem. 1. Header wrap (i.e. DEI-010110 at Summit) 2. Starter wrap (i.e. DEI-010402 at Summit) Those are by Design Engineering. It's just one example, there are numerous brands out there. Good luck!!

07-10-2003, 08:13 AM	#12
1FaastC10 Account Suspended Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Elkhart, IN Posts: 6,399	check the battery. i had a similar problem with my C10, turned out to be dead cells in the battery.

07-10-2003, 10:59 AM	#13
BigRed Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 1,680	I agree with 44 Miss Inf about the remote solenoid. I put a couple links in this thread that would tell you how to easily install one. Not an expensive or time consuming fix to see if that's your problem. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...threadid=59169 __________________ Scott Shelbourne

07-10-2003, 04:54 PM	#14
44th Miss Inf Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Liberty, Mississippi Posts: 672	BigRed, I use the one from the Street Rod link. That way only 1 wire going to the starter, and it is not energized except during cranking. Virgil

07-10-2003, 05:24 PM	#15
78chevstepside Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: lacenter, washington Posts: 718	I fixed the problem. I went and bought a heat sheild insulation wrap. I installed that and it improved some but not all the way. Then i really started lookin. I noticed that the ground strap for the motor( not the main ground on the battery) was melted in two from cranking on the starter when it was too hot. So I replaced that and it cured the problem. Maybe that was the only problem to start with. Thanks for your peoples help :p jay

07-10-2003, 05:52 PM	#16
44th Miss Inf Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Liberty, Mississippi Posts: 672	Glad to hear that you are back up and running. Sorry for getting off topic with the remote solenoid . Virgil



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