knock knock

[familyfast64]

Ok,
Bare with me, please.
Let me set the scene right quick.
It was 10:00 pm, movies are due back by midnight. I fired up the truck and let her warm up. Cruised nice and easy all by my lonesome to the video store in town. It's a 30 mile run down the old highway at 55-60mph. I made it there on time, and headed straight back for home. Gauge checks are regular and with them reading, 165-170degrees/ 14.1volts/ 58psi at 55mph and about 2200rpm everything checked out.
Without notice, a loud loud knocking or popping sound started to occur and I instantly took foot off the gas. During the few seconds it took to pull over I checked gauges, thought belt, thought rod, thought but I want even accelerating, thought my radio isn't even on and there was no warning noise, thought dang my wife is going to be mad, thought about calling the p/o who used the drivetrain as his number one selling point talking about how strong and reliable it was while also being fresh with only 3400 miles, thought oh this is just what comes with the hobby and now I'll get a chance to learn what I'm actually working with. The car comes to a stop.
I immediately jump out and ruled out my first thought. Belts good, nothing hanging, nothing obvious anywhere. I tried bumping it over and the knock was so loud I couldn't stomach it. Keys out, phone in hand I call the wife. 10 miles from nothing, service in and out, 3 calls later she's loaded the kids and coming. In an suv mind you, with no tow package. We didn't renew AAA.
I have her take me to a guy who lives out of small place attached to a huge shop. Outside sits an old 56-57 Chevy 2dr gasser. Couple old t birds, mustang, a 69-70 gto with every option you would want and some crazy cool old orange paint and custom paintwork. Not pin stripping but fancy late 70s art. Also, a galaxy and some other old trucks. I was greeted by the guy with a smile on his face like he already new. We had met before because of that gto and my nova. He helped me tow the truck home without hesitation and would not take a dime no matter how many times I tried to throw it at him. He said he hasn't had that much excitement in months and made me feel very welcome.
I assumed it would be the worst and stressed about having to pull the motor not having a picker or any of the right lifts. He pulled me straight to his house and set me up in one end of his shop. Said anything you need. Awesome guy. I took off the air cleaner and tried more persistently to start it and keep it running for a second so he could have a listen. He immediately diagnosed a wiped cam. And I believe he's right, at least I don't believe its a rod anymore cause the loud popping was backfiring and against the metal k&n air cleaner lid it sounded like a bomb going off over and over. With it off it wasn't so bad. I think it could be either the cam, push rod, maybe even spring or lifter or busted valve?
The backfire Is because a valve isn't opening, right?
Anyway, we had a couple drinks and shot the **** till after 2am when he took me home. I'm going this evening to open her up and find pt what's really going on. Thought I'd fill you all in, maybe you've had similar experiences before and could throw some tips my way? I'm really grateful I have a hot rodder close by. With his real life experience and my having done so much learning and recent tinkering with the sbc stuff, I think I'll be alright. Worst case scenario, his cats scratch the paint on the hood (lol) and I end up having to swap in a replacement engine from off craigslist while I build this one back up. Best case, broken valve spring or push rod, maybe new cam and lifters?
Thanks guys.
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[lha1992]

Dang that sucks man!!! Did you say that the motor only had 3,400miles on the rebuild? How long had you been driving it? Maybe go back an talk to the guy you got the motor from...? I wonder if they did a proper break-in procedure with the motor an didn't have enough zinc?

Hopefully its not too big but just open her up an see what's going on...

[MisterC]

Good luck with that! I'm inclined to think bad cam as well. I had that happen on a 1970 Malibu with a 307 cid. Seemed like it happened "out of the blue". Quick cam change and I drove it for 33,000 miles before I ultimately sold it.

[familyfast64]

Ya, I just recently traded my nova for it and actually just transferred insurance and tags. But I have rolled over the 4000mile mark already. The oil was pretty Damn dark but I chaulked that up as being dark because the p/o only put 200 miles on it during the two years he owned it. So the guy before him built it and I never got that info. I changed it tho with what he said the builder before him recommended which was 20w-50. I used the valvoline stuff. The good stuff they have. I used to use the 10w-30 vr1 in the nova cause it had the extra zddp but I'm unsure if the 20w-50 is like that. I wasnt as concerned tho being my nova had a flat tappet set up and this truck is supposed to be a full roller motor. Which it sounds to be the case. It sounds or sounded really good. I don't know . I had read on the forum that some use 10-30 or 20-50 or others and it depend on clearances in which case I should use what they recommended. Maybe that's what caused it. I had good pressure to and it was never too high or low. Plus it warmed up nice and quick, faster than the novas 355 even. Is the 383( if that's what it checks out to be) always going to be hard to maintain on the street? I thought you could get good life out of them as long as the cam want to crazy.
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[familyfast64]

Originally Posted by MisterC

Good luck with that! I'm inclined to think bad cam as well. I had that happen on a 1970 Malibu with a 307 cid. Seemed like it happened "out of the blue". Quick cam change and I drove it for 33,000 miles before I ultimately sold it.

That's good to hear. Maybe they just put a cheap cam in or whatever. Maybe it's all soft stuff inside. Maybe not. I do know that truck is heavy tho, with some big ol' meats in back and a strong running set up with a lateR model th350(which is prolly pushing its luck too. To be determined.

[1963c-10]

Sorry to hear of the issue. Roller cams are normally pretty reliable....its the flat tappet cams that if not broken in proper normally cause issues. Hope you get it figured out and keep us updated.

Good to hear that there are still some nice folks out there that will help you out too.

[familyfast64]

I should be able to pull off a cam swap without pulling the motor right? Does my style grill come out no problem? And then the radiator of coarse, along with fan, pulleys, water pump, ect.

[familyfast64]

Originally Posted by 1963c-10

Sorry to hear of the issue. Roller cams are normally pretty reliable....its the flat tappet cams that if not broken in proper normally cause issues. Hope you get it figured out and keep us updated.

Good to hear that there are still some nice folks out there that will help you out too.

Thanks bud. It'll be ok I think. I thought they were supposed to be pretty reliable. And I sure am glad there's people willing to help. I really didn't want to leave it till morning on the side of the road. I really don't like asking people for anything let alone for nothing. I'll have to think of a way I could repay him where he doesn't have a choice but to except. Lol. I know he's looking for some 427 d code heads from a ford side oiler block. But ya know, I don't think I have the pockets for something like that. I mean, arnt those a hot item?

[geezer#99]

THanks dude!!
I dang near spit my coffee on the keyboard when I read what the super mechanic diagnosed the noise as. Flat cam won't hammer at all, just make a misfire at higher rpm.
And you're all thinking worst case scenario right off the bat.
When it's idling make a stethoscope from an old piece of garden hose and stick a funnel on one end against your ear and listen around on the motor with the other end to pinpoint it.
How was the oil pressure when you listened to the noise?
What was the temp?
If both normal it could be a simple broken rocker and the pushrod whacking the valve cover.
You gotta find the source of the noise and stop jumping to conclusions!

[96Indyram]

you said the pop noise was coming out the carb.
my "guess" would be you had a intake valve stuck open, and everytime the piston comes up it pushes the air up and out the open valve.
Now why the valve is stuck open...could be a number of things... a simple broken valve spring...retainer clips poped off... etc...
Pull the valve cover and take a look.

[NEWFISHER]

Sorry to hear, I know it seems to suck right now especially last night, but you will get it fixed and feel better about the repairs and knowing what you have. I burn through cars and trucks , trades etc always thinking I'm going to keep the one I currently have. I think I finally found "the one" in our 50 Suburban. I've replaced the motor twice in a year and a half. the trans once along with the rear diff, all of the brakes, steering, suspension etc. It's my daily and granted, much better and more reliable now than before but it sucked telling similar stories of breakdown the first 6 months I had it on the road. It had sat for 8+ years and knew I was expecting a couple things and just got a couple more along the way. In the end it's the repairs you fix that make it yours and you always feel more proud with what you have done.

[chevy_mike]

Hey, just wanted to give a shout out. I am over on the Nova board too and had mention coming to this site. Glad you made it. Bunch of great people over here.

Bummer to hear about the engine problems. My '64 wagon that I bought in Dec. ended up toasting the 5300 mile rebuilt engine. I have all the receipts from the previous owner and the shop that installed it. Ended up overheating the rear cylinder and caused the piston to shrink, creating what sounded like a rod knock. It was piston slap at the bottom of the bore. Luckily no real damage to the block. Installed 6 new pistons, rings and bearing and quick hone. Put it back in and running well outside of the temp creeping up at idle.

Good luck with your truck!!!

[familyfast64]

Ok,
I started her up and pulled wires till I found out what side the mis was coming from. It was the passenger side so I pulled the valve cover and immediately found that a roller rocker was just setting in there off the stud. Wahoo... The screw in stud broke right underneath the rocker arm so I took it out and went outside to call my wife and ask her to purchase a new one at Napa on her way home. When I went back in the shop the guy was like, " hey I seen you found the problem huh?" I was like ya you were right, it was just part of the valve train. I don't even have to pull the intake. He was like, " yes, about that... I was looking to see if the push rod was damaged and when I went to pull it out it slipped out of my fingers and fell inside the block off the lifter."
Ugh
I couldn't be mad, but Damn man.
Now the distributor, carb and intake have to come off. I've never tried timing with the small unilite and Jacobs coil and pc2000? Or whatever it's called.
It's ok tho., I'll get to see a lil more of what I'm dealing with.
Any input on those set ups? I've pulled an hei and dropped it back in the same spot without rolling the motor over. But the digital stuff, how do I set the timing? Just the same, point number one plug towards the #1 cylinder and rev up to 2500 + and check the timing and just let the box do the rest? Can I Mark the distributor, and intake and just drop in back in the same spot.I can run a timing light and check 34 degrees first and work my way up to what it likes. The vacuum advance is unhooked, am I over thinking it? Will it be just like the hei? There is no mechanical advance tho right? The box controls that huh? I have no idea what it's set at now. Man what a bummer, but at the same time it could be worse. I did notice there was no guide plates or girdles like I had on my canfield heads. I wonder why that head stud snapped. Here's a couple bad pics.

[1963c-10]

Much easy fix than a cam swap. Glad yo ufound the issue. Should be up and running in no time.

[familyfast64]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

THanks dude!!
I dang near spit my coffee on the keyboard when I read what the super mechanic diagnosed the noise as. Flat cam won't hammer at all, just make a misfire at higher rpm.
And you're all thinking worst case scenario right off the bat.
When it's idling make a stethoscope from an old piece of garden hose and stick a funnel on one end against your ear and listen around on the motor with the other end to pinpoint it.
How was the oil pressure when you listened to the noise?
What was the temp?
If both normal it could be a simple broken rocker and the pushrod whacking the valve cover.
You gotta find the source of the noise and stop jumping to conclusions!

I wrote the answer to all those questions in my first statement. Lol and jumping to conclusions is diagnosing, at least right when it breaks that's what you do run different scenarios through your mind, right? Anyway turns out, it was just a backfire from the ticket being broke which was what I was hoping. It ain't over yet tho.

[familyfast64]

Originally Posted by NEWFISHER

Sorry to hear, I know it seems to suck right now especially last night, but you will get it fixed and feel better about the repairs and knowing what you have. I burn through cars and trucks , trades etc always thinking I'm going to keep the one I currently have. I think I finally found "the one" in our 50 Suburban. I've replaced the motor twice in a year and a half. the trans once along with the rear diff, all of the brakes, steering, suspension etc. It's my daily and granted, much better and more reliable now than before but it sucked telling similar stories of breakdown the first 6 months I had it on the road. It had sat for 8+ years and knew I was expecting a couple things and just got a couple more along the way. In the end it's the repairs you fix that make it yours and you always feel more proud with what you have done.

Your right about that. I'd much rather do it myself and know what's in there and what's going on. I don't know everything but when I do do something, I like to do it right. I'm very happy it was just the stud. Not very happy I have to dig deep into it to grab that pushrod but I'm not going to take his advice and leave it. He may be right and it may not cause any damage but i couldnt sleep at night knowing it was in there. He thinks I should just by a new pushed tho. Lol crazy ol dude.
But I'm glad we get to kick it while I'm tearing into it. It's just ol guys are so set on there ways it's hard to tell him "no don't do that, or no I got this" I had a hard time telling him I wasnt going to leave the pushrod in there. But dang. It's cool tho, just practice for next time. I'm just happy it's gonna be cheap. I actually have the intake gaskets already tho and might as well clean it all up and maybe rebuild the carb while it's off. That's my problem is I figure since it's coming off might as well take care of everything so I don't have to do it again anytime soon. But where do you stop . Thanks guys, and I'm looking forward to being a seasoned pro.

[familyfast64]

Originally Posted by chevy_mike

Hey, just wanted to give a shout out. I am over on the Nova board too and had mention coming to this site. Glad you made it. Bunch of great people over here.

Bummer to hear about the engine problems. My '64 wagon that I bought in Dec. ended up toasting the 5300 mile rebuilt engine. I have all the receipts from the previous owner and the shop that installed it. Ended up overheating the rear cylinder and caused the piston to shrink, creating what sounded like a rod knock. It was piston slap at the bottom of the bore. Luckily no real damage to the block. Installed 6 new pistons, rings and bearing and quick hone. Put it back in and running well outside of the temp creeping up at idle.

Good luck with your truck!!!

Thank you Chevy mike. I appreciate the welcome and I'm sure glad I didn't have your problems. That fix must have cost quite a bit. I'm hoping to get a lil farther along before I have to get in the bottom end. But I won't be surprised if it's sooner rather than later. Lol I'm glad to hear you got it takin care of tho. Sounds like you are seasoned huh?

[familyfast64]

Originally Posted by 1963c-10

Much easy fix than a cam swap. Glad yo ufound the issue. Should be up and running in no time.

Yes sir,
Hopefully tomorrow if all goes well... We'll see.. dun dun dunn.

[62chevy302]

I've dropped them and used a small magnet and pulled them back through the hole

[familyfast64]

Originally Posted by 62chevy302

I've dropped them and used a small magnet and pulled them back through the hole

He tried but he end up grabbing the lifter. So the rod is laying flat in there I guess, and now the lifter isn't where it should be.

[familyfast64]

Rocker arm stud, that's not a head stud, right? You know what I meant tho surely. Sorry

[familyfast64]

So, should I remove all spark plugs, find top dead center, before pulling or dropping my distributor back in? Or could I just not roll the motor or at all and mark the distributor and the intake and drop it in after replacing the rocker arm stud, and pulling the push rod out from unit the intake? That's what I'm most concerned with getting right. And does 50ft lbs sound right for a torque spec on the rocker stud? With a lil red? Loktight?

[96Indyram]

You can leave the motor where it is at, and just pull the distributor, look and see where the rotor is pointing, and when you drop it back in, make sure the rotor is pointing the same place again. If you want to, you can bump your starter to get the rotor aiming/ pointing at #1 plug wire on your distributor cap, or a reference point ( exe: pointing straight back or forward)
As long as you put it back in, the same as it came out you will have no problems.

I notice your out by Cheney Ks, I use to live near the lake years ago. Now I am out near Clearwater.

There are still alot of us Ol' Kansan's, that will give the shirt off their back to help a neighbor.

[familyfast64]

Originally Posted by 96Indyram

You can leave the motor where it is at, and just pull the distributor, look and see where the rotor is pointing, and when you drop it back in, make sure the rotor is pointing the same place again. If you want to, you can bump your starter to get the rotor aiming/ pointing at #1 plug wire on your distributor cap, or a reference point ( exe: pointing straight back or forward)
As long as you put it back in, the same as it came out you will have no problems.

I notice your out by Cheney Ks, I use to live near the lake years ago. Now I am out near Clearwater.

There are still alot of us Ol' Kansan's, that will give the shirt off their back to help a neighbor.

Ok, good. I want to try and keep this as simple as possible. Ya I live off Mt Vernon exit just after Cheney. It's pretty nice out here. Beats living in town far as I'm concerned but not like we always have a choice these days.
I've met a few good people around.
Seems there spread thin some days.
I'm glad I was able to get on the right track, I just hope I he don't mess with the truck while I'm not there. I don't want anymore surprises.
Ha-ha... Just busting his ballz a lil.

[Captainfab]

I'm glad that you found the problem and it isn't too serious. I would suggest at some point investigating as to possible reasons why that rocker stud broke. It could just have been that cheap studs were installed, or it could be an issue of coil bind or retainer to guide intereference. Either way, in my mind, if one broke, the rest are subject to breaking as well. If it were mine, I would be changine all of the studs with good known studs such as ARP. Of course that would be after I checked for the cause of the first failure, and corrected the issue.

BTW Does the engine have a roller cam as you were told it had?