CL find - not mine. Or would aftermarket AC be better?

[Lugnutz65]

My 1965 C10 restoration will eventually include AC, but not right away. This AC setup looks pretty complete and it's all factory original.

Is it a good deal?

http://augusta.craigslist.org/pts/4358391592.html

[Robert Haas]

Seems cheap to me

[27carter]

It won't have the center vent, purchased it from him separate today... fyi

[tincan1966]

It'll be about as good as 50 year old AC can be.
The major concern is how long everything has been open.

You'll need a new condenser, a new compressor, a new dryer, most likely new hoses made, probably should flush the evaporator, new rubber seals for the air boxes, a new fan motor, etc to recondition it. And it's still 50+ years old.

Altho I know almost every shadetree will disagree- to do it correctly you cannot mix R12 and R134A refrigerant. This includes the oil necessary to make it live. Also you cannot remove all the old oil from the system, that is why certain components should be replaced.

IMO $700 + cost to recondition to working order, for old vs $850 for new w/warranty isn't even a question.
This is considering you can do it all yourself. If you have to pay someone to do the restore for you, you are easily going to double, if not triple the cost.
The key comment is made in the ad , "..most if not all of these parts are no longer made..." yes it would be cool to have OEM, but.

We do custom AC work in our shop, and we wouldn't touch it, its cost prohibitive.

[Lugnutz65]

Originally Posted by 27carter

It won't have the center vent, purchased it from him separate today... fyi

You sir, are a savvy e-commerce shopper!

Thanks to all who replied. I have zero experience with AC and would need to farm out the installation anyway. To me, the dash was useless anyway.

[LT1 Burb]

Yeah, if you just want AC and don't care about originality then stick with vintage air or another brand.

[Joemomma1]

Originally Posted by 27carter

It won't have the center vent, purchased it from him separate today... fyi

To the OP; this is why you must make certain you will pass on the deal before you post the info. This guy joined the this board and posted his only post to rub it in your face that he bought the vent. What a piece if $hit.

Anyhow, I feel his price is way to high. Go with aftermarket for that.

[Lugnutz65]

Originally Posted by Joemomma1

To the OP; this is why you must make certain you will pass on the deal before you post the info. This guy joined the this board and posted his only post to rub it in your face that he bought the vent. What a piece if $hit.

Anyhow, I feel his price is way to high. Go with aftermarket for that.

No, the guy who bought it had every right in the world to buy it. I know that in a free marketplace, cash talks. I fully understood that by posting the item here that someone else might buy it. My interest was 2% but I was hoping someone else might see it. Someone who has been patiently looking but can't find it. If he was rubbing my nose in it, well I guess I meet folks like that at the cruise-ins too. They have something rare and want you to be jealous. I don't play that game.

[brokenspoke]

Originally Posted by 27carter

It won't have the center vent, purchased it from him separate today... fyi

Did you get the air box behind the vent? The center vent is pretty useless with out it.....

[27carter]

Originally Posted by Joemomma1

To the OP; this is why you must make certain you will pass on the deal before you post the info. This guy joined the this board and posted his only post to rub it in your face that he bought the vent. What a piece if $hit.

Anyhow, I feel his price is way to high. Go with aftermarket for that.

Please don't assume things. I have not been a member on this board long, but browsing for the last 6 months as I have started a project on a '64.

This same add was on Ebay listed for 1000 OBO. I contacted the seller last week after seeing it and worked out a deal to purchase the vent only. I consummated the deal yesterday morning, and then while on this site saw the OP listing, note this is after I purchased it. I just wanted to let him know that it would not contain the vent, as the listing originally showed, knowing that is an expensive item within the listing. I was more or less looking out for him, but thanks for passing judgment and calling me a piece of $hit. Great introduction to this board!!

[Lugnutz65]

Originally Posted by 27carter

Please don't assume things. I have not been a member on this board long, but browsing for the last 6 months as I have started a project on a '64.

This same add was on Ebay listed for 1000 OBO. I contacted the seller last week after seeing it and worked out a deal to purchase the vent only. I consummated the deal yesterday morning, and then while on this site saw the OP listing, note this is after I purchased it. I just wanted to let him know that it would not contain the vent, as the listing originally showed, knowing that is an expensive item within the listing. I was more or less looking out for him, but thanks for passing judgment and calling me a piece of $hit. Great introduction to this board!!

27carter,
Since I was the OP, let me say this:
1. I have absolutely no hard feelings.
2. I posted that listing on this forum so that I might help someone else find it. I had almost zero interest in it but knew someone else might.
3. Since judgement was passed by only one person (not me) please consider it just that, one person. It was a mistake without knowing the facts.
4. His comment is certainly not representative of the way people respond on this forum. I have found this forum to be about the best place to get help, encouragement and offer help to others.

I'd like to welcome you to the forum and hope you hang around. I called you a savvy shopper, and I believe I am correct. Have you ever used Searchtempest.com to do a massive CL search? It's awesome and you can find stuff that nobody else sees.

Send me a PM and I'll elaborate.

[27carter]

Originally Posted by brokenspoke

Did you get the air box behind the vent? The center vent is pretty useless with out it.....

I'm planning to retrofit it with a vintage air system, realize I may need to fabricate a piece to make it work, do you think I'll run into issues with that?

[27carter]

Originally Posted by Lugnutz65

27carter,
Since I was the OP, let me say this:
1. I have absolutely no hard feelings.
2. I posted that listing on this forum so that I might help someone else find it. I had almost zero interest in it but knew someone else might.
3. Since judgement was passed by only one person (not me) please consider it just that, one person. It was a mistake without knowing the facts.
4. His comment is certainly not representative of the way people respond on this forum. I have found this forum to be about the best place to get help, encouragement and offer help to others.

I'd like to welcome you to the forum and hope you hang around. I called you a savvy shopper, and I believe I am correct. Have you ever used Searchtempest.com to do a massive CL search? It's awesome and you can find stuff that nobody else sees.

Send me a PM and I'll elaborate.

Lug,
Thanks for your kind words. From browsing, I have found the forum to have invaluable information. I like to think, probably like most, that I am good at finding things on the internet. Have done some other large CL searches, but have not tried searchtempest.com.... I'll check it out. Thanks again for the friendly words!

[63burban]

The ebayer has some nice truck stuff from time to time, look through his complete store.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_nkw=...27belair&rt=nc

[chevyrestoguy]

You have to weight both options, factory and aftermarket. In the end, the aftermarket will probably come out ahead, if you're going on total money spent. The aftermarket stuff is much more advanced in technology than the original stuff, and is usually much more compact.

But, I like the look of the original vents, and I'm one of the guys who likes it when the original stuff is working and operational. You can make the factory system work great, but you have to be prepared to make some retrofits. First of all, you're probably never going to run R-12 because of the cost of the refrigerant, so you will need to do the steps required to convert the system to R-134.

First of all, the condenser will probably need to be replaced because after 50 years, because they just get brittle and start falling apart. The fins are a soft material, and they'll usually break when you try to straighten them. The newer style condensers are better designed for R-134. Usually, they have a larger surface area, and according to the experts, it's required to help dissipate the heat. So, replacing the condenser is highly suggested. Also, nearly every factory installed R-134 system since it's introduction has had an electric fan to help cool the condenser. An electric fan blowing on the condensor greatly helps a R-134 system. If you don't like the look of an electric fan, then having a high-quality clutch fan is highly recommended.

Always, always, always replace the filter/dehydrator whenever you have the system apart.

Our original systems are equipped with a Suction Throttle Valve (STV), and finding a replacement is getting tougher and tougher. You can change it over to a POA valve, which is totally compatible and will interchange. Make sure the POA valve you're getting is calibrated for R-134. The two refrigerants react differently, and you'll need a POA valve that's calibrated to bypass at a different rate than R-12.

The older axial compressors (A6) work great with R-12, but the newer radial style compressors work even better with R-134 because they're more efficient. The R4 compressors that GM used from the early '80s to the early 2000s are not known for living a long life, but they're readily available and pretty inexpensive. The later, smaller compressors like the Sanden are excellent and work well.

The old AC lines can leak due to old age, and the R-134 has a real tendency to leak past the old worm clamps that GM used back in the day. Making new lines with RingLoc fittings will help eliminate any refrigerant loss.

Change out every O-ring in the system to ones that are R-134 compatible.

Make you use the correct PAG oil for R-134!

You can make your factory system work pretty well by upgrading the condensor, dryer, POA, and compressor. Just remember that after all of that upgrading, you'll probably be over the price of an aftermarket set-up.

[tincan1966]

Originally Posted by chevyrestoguy

You have to weight both options, factory and aftermarket. In the end, the aftermarket will probably come out ahead, if you're going on total money spent. The aftermarket stuff is much more advanced in technology than the original stuff, and is usually much more compact.

But, I like the look of the original vents, and I'm one of the guys who likes it when the original stuff is working and operational. You can make the factory system work great, but you have to be prepared to make some retrofits. First of all, you're probably never going to run R-12 because of the cost of the refrigerant, so you will need to do the steps required to convert the system to R-134.

First of all, the condenser will probably need to be replaced because after 50 years, because they just get brittle and start falling apart. The fins are a soft material, and they'll usually break when you try to straighten them. The newer style condensers are better designed for R-134. Usually, they have a larger surface area, and according to the experts, it's required to help dissipate the heat. So, replacing the condenser is highly suggested. Also, nearly every factory installed R-134 system since it's introduction has had an electric fan to help cool the condenser. An electric fan blowing on the condensor greatly helps a R-134 system. If you don't like the look of an electric fan, then having a high-quality clutch fan is highly recommended.

Always, always, always replace the filter/dehydrator whenever you have the system apart.

Our original systems are equipped with a Suction Throttle Valve (STV), and finding a replacement is getting tougher and tougher. You can change it over to a POA valve, which is totally compatible and will interchange. Make sure the POA valve you're getting is calibrated for R-134. The two refrigerants react differently, and you'll need a POA valve that's calibrated to bypass at a different rate than R-12.

The older axial compressors (A6) work great with R-12, but the newer radial style compressors work even better with R-134 because they're more efficient. The R4 compressors that GM used from the early '80s to the early 2000s are not known for living a long life, but they're readily available and pretty inexpensive. The later, smaller compressors like the Sanden are excellent and work well.

The old AC lines can leak due to old age, and the R-134 has a real tendency to leak past the old worm clamps that GM used back in the day. Making new lines with RingLoc fittings will help eliminate any refrigerant loss.

Change out every O-ring in the system to ones that are R-134 compatible.

Make you use the correct PAG oil for R-134!

You can make your factory system work pretty well by upgrading the condensor, dryer, POA, and compressor. Just remember that after all of that upgrading, you'll probably be over the price of an aftermarket set-up.

So...pretty much exactly the same thing I said at the very beginning of this thread, but I'm used to my suggestions being worthless.

We've done 5 of these installs on these trucks, three of which we retrofitted the aftermarket AC system to blow thru the OE style vents by making our own rear housing to accept the ductwork. We also installed the retro control panel that looks like a deluxe heater control lever unit.

Don't have pics to share of those installs, since they were customer vehicles, not our own and we don't have permission to use the vehicle's likeness for promotion.
Just saying it can be done and done with very easily.

[brokenspoke]

Originally Posted by 27carter

I'm planning to retrofit it with a vintage air system, realize I may need to fabricate a piece to make it work, do you think I'll run into issues with that?

I just installed a Vintage Air in my 65.....to hook up the ducts you have to have something to connect them to...I cut down the orginal air box and adapted duct connetions to it.....the air box behind the dash is what the outer vent connects to.....with out I dunno.....check out my install

[64fleetside]

I have factory AC on a '64, I replaced the evap, used a Old Air R134a condensor kit, built new hoses, these systems used a simple expansion valve with no suction throttling valve-that was 67-72. Works great and everyone comments on the rarity. Compressors don't care what refrigerant they are pumping, it is condensor design. I get 38* air out the center vent with 90+ ambient.