Curious...Andy

[Andy4639]

I'm curious?

Why do so many people do the cold air intake setup on a vehicle but don't finish the job by making it a cold air? I have noticed that most people buy the expensive kits just to suck in under the hood hot air.
If your going to spend that kind of money for the kits why not get a true cold air one and get the benefit from it. Just wondering.

[BR3W CITY]

"true cold air intake" is the kind of thing that gets posted on honda forums.

Even the guys who run the filter down into the support don't have a "Cold air" intake unless its actually ducted/boxed from the engine heat.
The factory air box is a cold air intake, through the little snorkel-thingy.

The other main reason is; the kit is cheap and universally available when compared to the cost of just buying 4" aluminum tube (if you can find it). The kit is "known to work", so folks gravitate to it for ease. There is no actual kit that makes a functioning "cai" for these trucks, so either you fab it from scratch, or you fab it from a "recipe" (aka kit peices made to work)

[Andy4639]

That's my ? why would you spend the money and not make it a real cold air box! Mine is a true cold air system that was less than $50.00. It may not be what everyone wants but it works. I just was thinking all these post about Horse power this and that but then they put a air filter under the hood.

[littlevictories]

good thread

[BR3W CITY]

Does a "cai" that has a more restrictive flow make more power than an unrestricted "hot air intake"? Thats the question I suppose. Plenty of folks still run carb style air cleaners, and aren't in a hurry to put tubing on them.

There are also other factors in the intake construction. Due to the lengths and bends of intake tube, there is the possiblity of restriction and the sort of "straw effect". Some custom airboxes don't take actual advantage of the natural air passages in the truck, actually blocking more flow in the guise of cooler IAT. Things like corrugated tubing can flex or suck in due to thin wall thickness, and the material itself offer little to no insulation from engine heat.

Going further, I think the ease of use is a factor. Not everyone has the same underhood space or layout. There are places that work good in each generation of truck, but some swaps simply don't allow for the easy solution. In my case, I originally had to run a "short ram", because my battery took up the "desired" area and I hadn't yet put in the time/money/effort to go through a battery relocation. When those things happened, then the air box went along with them. Not everyone has the skill/time/tools to make their own box either, and if they don't want to recycle o.e stuff, that puts them out of luck as no off-the-shelf kits really exist, let alone for all the different generations we are working with. Probably 80% of the swaps on here in 6 generations of trucks all use the same ebay base intake kit.

In some cases, the answer is...it was good enough. Most folks won't notice the difference in power, many are happy with the more aggressive sound.

Why do people put the money into an lq4/lq9 and then put a 4l60e or road worn 700r4 behind it? Why do people build emissions legal swaps in states that don't require it?












why do people have shops do their swaps?

[jjzepplin]

I go out and fiddle with my truck because I need a hobby. I may not put all the RIGHT stuff on my truck the first time around mostly because I don't have the coin to blow. Who knows- I might come up with something that works. It all has so far. Besides, what fun is it having everything work out the first time around? Or has this ever happened? Trial and error. It keeps my brain working on things. I build my own engines and transmissions as well as differentials. I only have someone else touch my trucks when I need an alignment-which I am also trained to do but don't have a shop full of equipment.
A bad accident put my back in bad shape so I am broke.
BUT- I keep going with what I can afford thru trading and junk yards.
I recently came across and old Iroc in the yards and was looking at the intake and thought about putting a dual snorkel on the truck and cutting two wide 1"x6" slots into the front of my 72 hood to get cold air in there. The hood is kinda rusty anyway.
And I guess having everything work out the first time would be great! But then I would just blow massive wads of cash driving my truck all over the USA. I guess it sitting there waiting for me to fix it up saves me money in gas.

[Andy4639]

Cooler air no matter will produce better power than hot air. Restrictive air path would have to be big to notice it in most cases.
Well I'm not saying it's not OK to do it. I'm saying these people all talk about how much horse power they have after all the work they had done to their motor but yet they put a under hood air system on it. Why go to all the trouble!That's all! If your going to have a vehicle and not drive it then why have it! Yes I have drove mine since 1987 when I bought it. I have done all the work on mine also up until this past LS motor swap. I just didn't have the time are the space to do it at home. I wanted it done before the Power Tour also.
I was one of the first guy's on this board to have a TPI motor installed by me with a 700R4 transmission. I had several over drive 4 speeds in the truck that wouldn't handle the power so I went with the 700r4 after the 3 straight drive broke. Yes I have had to redo plenty of stuff on mine over the past 27 years and I'm still working on it. But I drive mine all over the place as well.
I drive it to work everyday just about and I drove it out of state to work so many times I can't even remember. After 300,000 miles I just don't even try to remember how many miles my truck has on it. I bought this truck for a D/D. and at the time I couldn't afford a new truck.

[CaptRMW]

Dang JJ I never thought about saving money that way. That red and silver truck that you saw at the meet and greet at Colgads a while back just rolled over 420,000 miles this weekend. That is 312,000 miles since I bought it 25 years ago with gas at the time way up around .69 per gallon. Yes I could have bought a small farm with what I have spent on gas but farming is hard work and driving this truck is pure pleasure. That truck and Nellie and I will be making the trip from Maryland to Florida for the 41st. time in a couple of weeks and we are looking forward to the next meet and greet. Regards, Roger

[Hart_Rod]

I built a custom CAI for my truck. It took me a couple weeks of measuring, building templates, fitting, ordering material to fabricate my setup. I have approximately $300 in materials, but if someone wanted me to build one for them, I would probably charge 3 times that much! It was a lot of work and effort....thing is, I don't know that it increased my power any. I didn't really do a before any after dyno to see what my effort resulted in.....the only thing I know for sure is, it looks way cooler than just a filter hanging out there on the end of a tube!

[jjzepplin]

I will see you there Roger. I didn't mean I don't drive it. And I must do something to it daily or I am afraid it will get mad. I am a little road shy after the accident I guess so I don't drive it daily. It's mostly my stump puller and trailer tower.
But this cold air thing has been in my mind since I got it in 86. Not sure how much power it makes but I think any cold air from anywhere would be a help here in hot Fl. It has to get real hot under that hood.
How do you like your LS?

[CaptRMW]

JJ I can't afford an LS I spend all of my money on gas but was seriously checking out some cool ideas on cool air intake to maybe save on gas so I would have more money to buy more gas..or beer..

[Andy4639]

Here is a older thread about cold air setups with mine in it. Less than $50.00 in all and it gained me a little on the Dyno according to Hawks.


http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s....php?p=4017746

[Keith Seymore]

As an aside - I designed the engine air induction system for the 1998 GMT800 trucks (back in about 1994).

The airbox is still in use today.

K

[Andy4639]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

As an aside - I designed the engine air induction system for the 1998 GMT800 trucks (back in about 1994).

The airbox is still in use today.

K

Keith,
You did a fine job on it to, just a few years to late for me though!
I installed my cold air right after we bought my wifes 90 Seville new in 1990. It's what gave me the idea for mine.
Keith can you give some insight as to why you chose the design you did.

[Shon]

we could have lined up yours against mine with the hot air intake set up and see what happened....
for my set up, the MAF didn't meet my needs so I went SD and filter on TB.
Now that my use of truck has changed I will end up getting a MAF and putting a 'CAI' set up on there but it will be to cover up where the PCM is sitting.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Andy4639

Keith can you give some insight as to why you chose the design you did.

Thank you; a couple thoughts:

Recall the (new for) 1996 system was a cylindrical element mounted above the wheelhouse. This was manufactured by Donaldson Co, makers of industrial and agricultural filters, and was very good for dust/dirt retention but not very good for flow restriction. It was also pretty good for protection against water ingestion due to the convoluted path through the fender (water being the mortal enemy of an internal combustion engine).

For '98 we had very stringent restriction requirements: no more than 1"Hg at maximum flow, from ambient air inlet to throttle body (original requirement from GM Powertrain: 1"Hg from ambient air to the intake valve - which is rediculous and which we on the platform side could not control. We managed to renegotiate that). The new system was sourced to Delphi (formerly AC or AC Spark Plug in Flint) and we knew we needed a flat panel to meet the flow, as well as moving to the right front corner in order to minimize any bends and/or the overall length of the run.

The only problem: that's where the primary battery was.

After much deliberation the Vehicle Chief Engineer drug me and the battery guy into a meeting and we hashed it out. The beauty of air induction design is that you can create rapid prototype parts and actually flow test them - so - I had data; battery guy didn't. The Chief Engineer ruled: "Seymore - you get the RF corner. Schaule - find another spot for your battery".

So we ended up with a very good flowing system which also did a good job getting cool air in and keeping water out. The system was sized for the largest gas engine (L18 = 272 g/s flow) and the diesel, so it is more than adequate (oversized) for the small block engines.

We also added a flow restriction gage as a nice feature and, as a result, we screwed the lid down on the box to try to keep people from fooling with it (ie, use the gage to determine when the element needs changing).

K

[Keith Seymore]

So - the next problem then, was this:

On the current product the coolant overflow bottle was attached to the front of dash and the entire cooling system (radiator, engine etc) could be evacuated and filled before the front end sheet metal was installed.

Now, with the air cleaner up front, the battery guy moved to the front of dash so that he would have some structure to support the heavy mass of the battery. That displaced the coolant bottle, which needed to go on top of the fender wheelhouse (the spot previously occupied by the air box).

The problem is that you couldn't evac and fill the cooling system without the front end on. And - the vehicle assembly plants, seven of them, were not about to relocate the evac and fill equipment to a more downstream location (HUGE $$ to do so).

Solution: add two buttons on the radiator support and "temporarily" stage the coolant bottle on the rad for evac and fill, at the same point in the process. After the fenders are installed the coolant bottle can be moved to its final resting place and secured.

So - do you remove the two buttons after that, or let them go for the ride? We debated and decided we didn't want to pay somebody to take them off, and that they weren't hurting anything, so we left them there. If you look at any GMT800 vehicle in the field it should still have those two little knobs located on the back side of the radiator support, towards the passenger side.

K

[Andy4639]

Cool thanks for the insight.

There you have it folks!

Shon we could have lined up yours against mine with the hot air intake set up and see what happened....
for my set up, the MAF didn't meet my needs so I went SD and filter on TB.
Now that my use of truck has changed I will end up getting a MAF and putting a 'CAI' set up on there but it will be to cover up where the PCM is sitting.

Shon you know that wouldn't be a fare deal...your LS motor ant stock!

[Shon]

Originally Posted by Andy4639

[B][COLOR="Red"]

Shon you know that wouldn't be a fare deal...your LS motor ant stock!

thats why I had it in the past tense.

[Matt Cramer]

Nice to hear the inside story. I have been running a throttle body mounted air filter and ordered a stock truck pipe and air box off eBay last week to see if I can get colder air into the truck.