Anyone used these headers?

[JamieGallien]

I'm not advertising this or recommending anyone buy....

Have any of you tried these Chinese made headers? They are stainless, come with bolts, gaskets, and even and extension with o2 sensor bungs. I'm thinking about giving them a shot at $185+free shipping, but didn't want to waste my time if one of you have already tried them...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/C10-Apache-C...70159158&rt=nc

[MalibuSSwagon]

They look like fairly generic swap headers, a member local to me put them on his C10 and they fit quite well. If I didn't have f-body manifolds already I'd be looking at a set.

[JamieGallien]

Good enough for me! (I was chomping at the bit to try them anyway). Probably typical chinese "quality", but I've been blessed with favor before! Gonna order a set and I'll let everyone here know....

[l92powered77]

I got the ones made for the 73-87 and they fit spot on with no grinding or cutting of frame or any of that nonsense.I used dirty dingo mounts.
I cannot remember the name of vendor tho but they were the same price and i recieved them here in California in 4 days not bad for shipping from china.

[aknovaman]

I have a set of them. First thing I did was cut off the crappy leak prone flanges and tig weld on some decent stainless eBay v band flanges. Other than that, they work great.

[BR3W CITY]

You need to be careful with how "stainless" chinese stainless is. The quick answer is that if they work and are cheap, then you don't have a ton to lose....but depending on your use of the truck, your power level, and in some cases your future plans for the truck, there are things to be wary of with foreign alloys.

First, for those who don't weld or work in the trades etc; there are multiple different grades of stainless....MANY of them. Each of them has different traits in terms of strength, fatigue, temp properties etc (and the way each welds can vary).

Why does this matter? Because with various types come various prices, and various levels of QC.

Most stuff you see thats SS, is 304. Its what you see in most factories, most stainless trim, most fabbed stainless fixtures and kitchen stuff. Its also the the cheapest common stainless. If you fabbed a set of headers yourself, the tube you'd probably find around, is 304....and in many cases, thats just fine.

BUT stainless holds heat, which means that heat can build and take the metal to temperatures at which it becomes less structurally stable. Thats when 316/316l, and more importantly 321 come into play.

Those grades are more expensive, but 321 can hold temps of 1500*, whereas 304 starts to anneal at around 400. Large engines with high compression, supercharged engines, all can produce heat levels that would make 304 impractical. For something like a turbo manifold, 304 is a no no.

Now the next part about Chinese SS is QC. They just don't put the level of effort into refining and grading materials (additives cost money too), which can result in poor weldability, varying thicknesses on tubes and sheets, and carbon inclusions. Stainless steel also work hardens, so Chinese factories with worn tooling or bad production techniques can place impact marks and welds in areas that will lead to stress cracking or failure.

That got a little long, but there is actually a bit more.

[imjeff]

I wouldn't use them for a couple reasons. One being the bad quality and the second that I don't want to participate in gutting what's left of our manufacturing capability.

Jeff

[aknovaman]

Be aware the head flanges are actually Nickel plated plain steel. Other than that, they are fine. I have run them on several applications for over 5 years without issue in rain snow salt and mud in worse case situations.
So imo, they are fine and much better durability over plain steel painted headers of the past. Are they for every application or person, no. Will they burn your care to the ground or cause cancer in your goldfish, unlikely but To each their own.

[BR3W CITY]

Originally Posted by aknovaman

Will they burn your care to the ground or cause cancer in your goldfish, unlikely but To each their own.

If your fish was welding them for you, and got Hexavalent Chromium exposure from lack of a breathing apparatus, then yes, your fish could actually get cancer from these.

[aknovaman]

Goldfish getting cancer is still unlikely as studies in China do not support increases in cancer among patients (fish or human) using sufficient breathing apparatus based upon water samples in the direct area of any chromium processing facilities.

Research data for those concerned.

http://journals.lww.com/joem/Abstrac...Exposed.8.aspx

[BR3W CITY]

Dated study from Chinese research scientists who needed to support the governments statements that rural peoples weren't being exposed to environment risks in the groundwater.

More recently
http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...-water-cancer/

I am joking around for the most part, but I worked with pipefitters who welded the stuff. Groundwater aside (this is only a concern is areas which mass produce SS), there is a direct exposure risk to those welding the material. The first study is in regards to the leaching affect on the neighboring populous.

Here is the CDC's take on the stuff from 2013
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/hexchrom/

[aknovaman]

I never let my Chinese gold fish use my tig welder under water any longer as a result of my fear that they may be welded to the headers.

[68c10airstream]

I don't remember the particulars on hexavalent chromium, but i do remember it is BAD NEWS

[JamieGallien]

Originally Posted by imjeff

I wouldn't use them for a couple reasons. One being the bad quality and the second that I don't want to participate in gutting what's left of our manufacturing capability.

Jeff

Our problems with overseas manufacturing will not be solved by me (or even by many of us) refusing to buy foreign goods. All that will do is put us at a lack for those goods. Seriously, it's almost impossible to survive without buying foreign goods at this point. Tax policy and government regulation are what have moved our manufacturing overseas by making the cost of goods creation less expensive. *off my economical soap box now...lol

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

You need to be careful with how "stainless" chinese stainless is. The quick answer is that if they work and are cheap, then you don't have a ton to lose....but depending on your use of the truck, your power level, and in some cases your future plans for the truck, there are things to be wary of

Really good info. Thanks for that. The thing to remember though is we're talking about sub $200 headers here, not a 800-900 set for a show car. I know you get what you pay for...

Originally Posted by aknovaman

I have a set of them. First thing I did was cut off the crappy leak prone flanges and tig weld on some decent stainless eBay v band flanges. Other than that, they work great.

I hope they work out for me too...

Originally Posted by aknovaman

Be aware the head flanges are actually Nickel plated plain steel. Other than that, they are fine. I have run them on several applications for over 5 years without issue in rain snow salt and mud in worse case situations.
So imo, they are fine and much better durability over plain steel painted headers of the past. Are they for every application or person, no. Will they burn your care to the ground or cause cancer in your goldfish, unlikely but To each their own.

Wow...

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

If your fish was welding them for you, and got Hexavalent Chromium exposure from lack of a breathing apparatus, then yes, your fish could actually get cancer from these.

Originally Posted by aknovaman

Goldfish getting cancer is still unlikely as studies in China do not support increases in cancer among patients (fish or human) using sufficient breathing apparatus based upon water samples in the direct area of any chromium processing facilities.

Research data for those concerned.

http://journals.lww.com/joem/Abstrac...Exposed.8.aspx

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

Dated study from Chinese research scientists who needed to support the governments statements that rural peoples weren't being exposed to environment risks in the groundwater.

More recently
http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...-water-cancer/

I am joking around for the most part, but I worked with pipefitters who welded the stuff. Groundwater aside (this is only a concern is areas which mass produce SS), there is a direct exposure risk to those welding the material. The first study is in regards to the leaching affect on the neighboring populous.

Here is the CDC's take on the stuff from 2013
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/hexchrom/

Originally Posted by aknovaman

I never let my Chinese gold fish use my tig welder under water any longer as a result of my fear that they may be welded to the headers.

Originally Posted by 68c10airstream

I don't remember the particulars on hexavalent chromium, but i do remember it is BAD NEWS

Wow...that escalated quickly! So...no goldfish...got it! (you guys on this site crack me up!)

[imjeff]

Originally Posted by JamieGallien

Our problems with overseas manufacturing will not be solved by me (or even by many of us) refusing to buy foreign goods. All that will do is put us at a lack for those goods. Seriously, it's almost impossible to survive without buying foreign goods at this point. Tax policy and government regulation are what have moved our manufacturing overseas by making the cost of goods creation less expensive. *off my economical soap box now...lol

While I agree that there are many policies that skew trade policies, saying we don't have the ability to affect where things are made is ludicrous. The government doesn't make you buy Chinese stuff. If people bought and demanded American goods there wouldn't be a demand for the imported stuff. Consumers get exactly what they want. Apparently McMansions full of junk is the consensus these days. Never thought "buy American" would garner a "lol".

[JamieGallien]

Originally Posted by imjeff

While I agree that there are many policies that skew trade policies, saying we don't have the ability to affect where things are made is ludicrous. The government doesn't make you buy Chinese stuff. If people bought and demanded American goods there wouldn't be a demand for the imported stuff. Consumers get exactly what they want. Apparently McMansions full of junk is the consensus these days. Never thought "buy American" would garner a "lol".

Now you're just twisting what I said. A little more clarity and integrity in the discussion keeps things clearer! The "lol" was obviously about me being on a proverbial soapbox, which you are forcing me to get back on. I also didn't say that we don't have the ability to affect where goods are made. I said the "problem...will not be solved by me (or even by many of us) refusing to buy foreign goods." At this point in time we don;t even have that choice and most goods we use everyday are not manufactured in the states any more AT ALL. The greater point being that change in our tax and regulation policies, brought about by our votes and voice, CAN bring goods manufacturing back stateside.

[JamieGallien]

Originally Posted by JamieGallien

Now you're just twisting what I said. A little more clarity and integrity in the discussion keeps things clearer! The "lol" was obviously about me being on a proverbial soapbox, which you are forcing me to get back on. I also didn't say that we don't have the ability to affect where goods are made. I said the "problem...will not be solved by me (or even by many of us) refusing to buy foreign goods." At this point in time we don;t even have that choice and most goods we use everyday are not manufactured in the states any more AT ALL. The greater point being that change in our tax and regulation policies, brought about by our votes and voice, CAN bring goods manufacturing back stateside.

That escalated quickly too...what is is with this site? lol! *disclaimer: preceding "lol" NOT about buying American goods...

[imjeff]

Since the topic is headers and the assertion is its nearly impossible to buy things made here I will offer that there are several companies that make headers in the US. Some even offer lifetime warranties. You're free to buy what you want, but I'll buy the ones that are built here and are better quality. I try to patronize sellers on this site and American companies. It costs more, but the quality is generally better and I'd rather support a company that puts folks to work than pay more in taxes to support them with unemployment. I apologize for linking your lol to my buy American comment. I think people would be doing better if they went for quality over quantity. That's why I commented, not to dissuade you, but so others might consider the pros and cons. I just bought a new rug for my living room. It's an oriental rug...made in America. Go figure. I will be interested in how your headers perform, but I don't see a cost savings to ship materials across the pacific ocean, manufacture them into a product and then shipping that product back across the ocean. I believe the savings will come at the price of quality, but I may be wrong. Good luck and no hard feelings intended!

[JamieGallien]

Originally Posted by imjeff

Since the topic is headers and the assertion is its nearly impossible to buy things made here I will offer that there are several compa.....product back across the ocean. I believe the savings will come at the price of quality, but I may be wrong. Good luck and no hard feelings intended!

None taken! and I do get your point and reasoning. Good, American made headers would be great, and possibly of better quality, but we either believe in the free market system or we don't. Government meddling in a so-called free market is where we get in trouble. Hence $185, possible lower quality headers versus $1000 headers, albeit of perhaps better quality, that do the exact same thing. As always, things aren't nearly as black and white as we wish they were. I personally don't think a set of headers is worth $185, much less $1000...so there's that too. Thanks for the discussion nevertheless!

[68c10airstream]

Don't forget corporate greed and it's effect on manufacturing in the states, and the huge golden parachute some of them leave on!

[JamieGallien]

I think I would rather talk about goldfish....lol

[JamieGallien]

Originally Posted by 68c10airstream

Don't forget corporate greed and it's effect on manufacturing in the states, and the huge golden parachute some of them leave on!

There's someone who has less than you who thinks the same about you bro. Greed is always measured differently depending on which way the finger is pointed. and I would still rather talk about goldfish.

ADMINS...could you close this thread. I'm afraid we may have started something that is going to get out of hand...I'll make a new post to let people know how my foreign economic adventure worked out...

[cableguy0]

Wow. You guys didn't waste much time turning this into a pissing match and then giving the Original Poster a hard time. This is becoming mildly political on top of it. I'm closing the thread.