Wanna start a build with a rust free truck?

[Advanced Design]

Only $12,995... I knew Dynacorn had cabs and I've never seen an entire kit before. Probably has a market as paying someone to do rust repair right is expensive as we all know.

https://www.premierstreetrod.com/det...Metal_Kit.html

[HUSSEY]

First time I've seen a whole package put together. It's expensive but considering my lack of skill for body work, and what it would cost to pay to have a body restored, it's probably a good price.

I know Congress recently passed a new law which allows for low volume production of vehicles that are street legal that don't have to meet todays standards. How would titling work on something like that?

I guess what I would do is find some old truck that looked like Swiss cheese and swap out the tags to get it titled.

[_Ogre]

I guess what I would do is find some old truck that looked like Swiss cheese and swap out the tags to get it titled.

i believe that would be illegal in most states, though i would check with your local dmv
i can see this being the easy way out for someone paying to have their body fixed
though even with all the repair in my truk i don't have a lot more than that plus shipping in my truk

[HUSSEY]

Originally Posted by _Ogre

i believe that would be illegal in most states, though i would check with your local dmv
i can see this being the easy way out for someone paying to have their body fixed
though even with all the repair in my truk i don't have a lot more than that plus shipping in my truk

I think the trucks built by Icon are titled as original. After watching their video and seeing a new cab I posted the question, what are they re-using from the truck? He responded "We use the firewall, defroster trim interior garnish and a few other details. We also build them using the original bodies when we find ones that are nice enough! thanks, J"

So, I guess "if" you say you used some of the old parts, you could get away with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE04ilPC5-I

[joedoh]

money no object builds are fascinating, I see they make a big window 57 too

as far as legality,

The ship wherein Theseus and the youth of Athens returned from Crete had thirty oars, and was preserved by the Athenians down even to the time of Demetrius Phalereus, for they took away the old planks as they decayed, putting in new and stronger timber in their places, in so much that this ship became a standing example among the philosophers, for the logical question of things that grow; one side holding that the ship remained the same, and the other contending that it was not the same.
— Plutarch

this question is older than all of us!

[fine69]

I don't think that is all that hateful of a price. Most guys don't have skills to fix rust. So by the time you pay someone to do it. Might as well buy this kit.

[Advanced Design]

I would be willing to bet there will be massaging needed on gaps and fitment, which would add to the cost if having it done.

Still would probably be a nice build. Anyone want to step up, buy the package and do a build so the rest of us can follow along?

Oh, the Icon truck is really nice and I seem to remember a price north of $200k mentioned somewhere.

[1project2many]

An "all new" truck could be titled as a Street Rod in NH. You must have State Police check the build for safety, inspect paperwork to ensure the frame, engine, and other parts from used vehicles were obtained legally, and if everything passes then a VIN can be issued. Once a VIN is assigned then a title can be issued. The truck, if built this year, would be titled as a 2016 Chevrolet.

In order to get the truck titled as an older vehicle in this state there must be an original VIN on the vehicle.

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by 1project2many

An "all new" truck could be titled as a Street Rod in NH. You must have State Police check the build for safety, inspect paperwork to ensure the frame, engine, and other parts from used vehicles were obtained legally, and if everything passes then a VIN can be issued. Once a VIN is assigned then a title can be issued. The truck, if built this year, would be titled as a 2016 Chevrolet.

In order to get the truck titled as an older vehicle in this state there must be an original VIN on the vehicle.

thats certainly one opinion. but if you read the ship of theseus paradox I posted above you can see how it gets fuzzy when every component of an ORIGINAL truck has been replaced. this is also called "grandfathers axe" paradox, where grandfathers axe is still being used having several handle and head replacements.

the ship paradox can be further complicated with this addition:
say that someone is restoring a truck and replaces every component except the VIN plate, and that someone ELSE is robbing the trash can and builds their own truck using all the components of the old truck. which truck is the original truck at that point? Why?

whatever your reasoning, there can be an argument made to the contrary and that is what made the greek philosophers so interesting.

I can hear what you are saying in rebuttal, you are speaking of a new truck constructed in a garage completely separate from an original old truck. but is it that different? do you have to go through the motions of tearing down the old truck and replacing every component in order to justify the original title? can someone just skip the labor of replacing and instead build it from the ground up?

this kind of subject is fascinating to me, I apologize for jumping on it so fiercely haha.

[1project2many]

thats certainly one opinion.

It's fact based on state statutes.

say that someone is restoring a truck and replaces every component except the VIN plate, and that someone ELSE is robbing the trash can and builds their own truck using all the components of the old truck. which truck is the original truck at that point?

The truck presented with no VIN will have a new VIN assigned and will be titled as a current model year truck.

whatever your reasoning, there can be an argument made to the contrary and that is what made the greek philosophers so interesting.

All the greeks were really highlighting was the tendency for people to attach sentiment to objects. The reason the argument exists at all is because it is readily apparent that replacing every part of an item causes the item to be different, yet we sentimentally assign a degree of "sameness" anyway. The reason the assignment is made at all boils down to a basic point: As a species we humans don't deal well with change.

I can hear what you are saying in rebuttal, you are speaking of a new truck constructed in a garage completely separate from an original old truck. but is it that different?

In NH it is. This definition assigns the property of "Street Rod" to "a body or frame manufactured after the year 1949 and which resembles that of the original vehicle and which retains the basic style and dimensions as originally manufactured and whose major components such as grill shell, hood, or doors are readily interchangeable with the original pre-1949 component. " In addition, This law and this law together define what happens when a Street Rod or custom vehicle is presented which does not have a VIN stamped on the frame.

do you have to go through the motions of tearing down the old truck and replacing every component in order to justify the original title? can someone just skip the labor of replacing and instead build it from the ground up?

Someone can do whatever they feel is best to build the truck. What someone cannot do is apply for a title which has the original truck's VIN or model year for a vehicle which does not have the original VIN. Without the original VIN or model year on the title, few people would accept a truck as original.

this kind of subject is fascinating to me, I apologize for jumping on it so fiercely haha.

No problem. It can be interesting to consider the inconsistency with which we view the world. George Washington's Axe simplifies the problem by reducing the quantity of constituent components in the object along with the number of details required to define it as unique. The rational argument becomes much clearer.

Now just for fun, imagine how different philosophy might be if ancient Athenians had decided to define a ship with all its planks and boards replaced as a "reproduction." The question of originality today might be settled based on that ancient precedent...

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by 1project2many

All the greeks were really highlighting was the tendency for people to attach sentiment to objects. The reason the argument exists at all is because it is readily apparent that replacing every part of an item causes the item to be different, yet we sentimentally assign a degree of "sameness" anyway. The reason the assignment is made at all boils down to a basic point: As a species we humans don't deal well with change.

The point the greeks were making is that there can be two of the same things, the repaired original and the reconstructed from parts of the original, and that people would be polarized, just like you are, as to which is the original, giving evidence and feeling justified that their position is unassailable.

In NH it is. This definition assigns the property of "Street Rod" to "a body or frame manufactured after the year 1949 and which resembles that of the original vehicle and which retains the basic style and dimensions as originally manufactured and whose major components such as grill shell, hood, or doors are readily interchangeable with the original pre-1949 component. " In addition, This law and this law together define what happens when a Street Rod or custom vehicle is presented which does not have a VIN stamped on the frame.

most pre 1950 cars and trucks do not have frame stamped VIN, in fact most pre 1940 used the engine number for their serial. imagine the expectation that the engine stays put forever, or that you must apply for a street rod title for the current year when replacing the engine. how is that for a paradox?

Someone can do whatever they feel is best to build the truck. What someone cannot do is apply for a title which has the original truck's VIN or model year for a vehicle which does not have the original VIN. Without the original VIN or model year on the title, few people would accept a truck as original.

so slowly replacing every panel, keeping records that every panel has been replaced, until each new panel has been (briefly) attached to the old adjacent panel, that excludes the truck from the paradox? I am not sure that is correct.

George Washington's Axe simplifies the discussion by reducing the quantity of constituent components in the object along with the number of details required to define it as unique. The rational argument becomes much clearer.

ownership I think is what you are describing, meaning no matter how many new components have been used it has always been in the possession of grandfather, therefore it can be described as grandfathers (I said grandfathers, you said george washingtons) axe. by extent, a new axe would still be considered grandfathers axe, right?

Now just for fun, imagine how different philosophy might be if ancient Athenians had decided to define a ship with all its planks and boards replaced as a "reproduction." The question of originality today might be settled based on that ancient precedent

that was also a position taken by some in the debates.

[mr48chev]

I figured it out one night and You can build an all new AD truck using their sheetmetal, a Morisson rolling chasissis and a decent LT crate motor an matching trans for about 70K painted and upholstered. That's with no labor charges involved except paint and upholstery. Obviously it could be done for a lot less using some used pieces and a lower cost chassis.

Premier AD truck sheet metal kit-------------------------- 12995.00
Art Morrison complete chassis ----------------------------15375.00
GM Performane ls 3 ready to run from Jeggs-----------------8685.97
GM performance supermatic 4L70E from Jeggs --------------2273.99
converter to match-----------------------------------------797.99
Misc wire kit, gauges, master cylinder kit, fuel tank and ?? --5000.00
Complete upholstery done by quality shop------------------8000.00
Quality paint job-----------------------------------------10000.00
Wheel and tires (this is an up to price) --------------------4000.00
Total----------------------------------------------------67497.95
Under 70K if you don't end up paying a shop to put it together.
That's just an idea of what it would run if you went all new with no discounts.

[_Ogre]

The truck, if built this year, would be titled as a 2016 Chevrolet.

i can imagine trying to explain this to the hiway patrol when asked for licence and registration

yo in a heap o trouble... boy

[ghettoluxury]

Originally Posted by HUSSEY

I know Congress recently passed a new law which allows for low volume production of vehicles that are street legal that don't have to meet todays standards. How would titling work on something like that?

The company building the new " reproduction" vehicle will assign a vin number to it and you can get a title based off of this reproduction vin. This new law makes things much easier to build replicas and allows for many more to be produced from each shop every year. This is the best thing that Congress has done for the Hotrod industry yet. SEMA has been working to get this passed for a long time. As long as the licensing fees are paid to the original company that produced the vehicle anything can now be reproduced.

[OrrieG]

In Idaho vehicles with bodies prior to 1948 can be titled and licensed as "hot rod" with the title showing the year of the body. Other custom vehicles that have not been previously titled will be assigned a VIN based on receipts and bill of sale for all the major components being inspected and passed. The year of title is the year it was applied for. Any titled vehicle over 30 years old is eligible for "classic" plates and can run year of origin plates as long as the number is not already being used.

[mr48chev]

Each state and I'd believe Province has a different take on how a "reproduction" vehicle is titled just as each state and Province has different and individual rules on how you obtain a title for a vintage vehicle that you obtained without a title or assembled from pieces from a variety of sources.

Still it's not going in blind with a finished truck and little or no documentation on it.

Receipts for all the new major parts. documentation on used parts that show you obtained them legally.

All I can add to that is before you spend a dime on on either used or new stuff without a title investigate exactly what your state or province requires you to have to obtain a title in that area.

[72Mountaineer]

No matter how you title it, its a very cool option, that you can build brand new truck. But isn't that what most people do?

[dwcsr]

this tells you how to title it
http://www.dynacornclassicbodies.com/stateseal2.html

http://www.semasan.com/page.asp?cont...olbox&g=SEMAGA

[1project2many]

The truck, if built this year, would be titled as a 2016 Chevrolet.
i can imagine trying to explain this to the hiway patrol when asked for licence and registration

yo in a heap o trouble... boy

lol. Yep. I called the state the first time I was asked to inspect a street rod with a "new" title. It sure seemed fishy to me.

imagine ... that you must apply for a street rod title for the current year when replacing the engine.

With respect to an antique vehicle, you are not required to apply for a new title when you change the engine. NH doesn't require titles on vehicles with a model year older than 2000. If your vehicle is currently registered and you change the only component with the vehicle's ID number then you are supposed to have the vehicle checked and a new VIN assigned. The new VIN would require a new reg but would not require a new title.

people would be polarized, just like you are

FYI I am not picking a position in the philosophical debate. A question was asked about how reproduction vehicles would be titled. I am relating how the vehicle could be treated in NH based on current laws.

[Advanced Design]

Originally Posted by dwcsr

this tells you how to title it
http://www.dynacornclassicbodies.com/stateseal2.html

http://www.semasan.com/page.asp?cont...olbox&g=SEMAGA

Good reference. Thanks dwcsr.

[1project2many]

Based on the information they've posted for NH, I'd recommend double checking your state's rules directly.

[OrrieG]

Originally Posted by dwcsr

this tells you how to title it
http://www.dynacornclassicbodies.com/stateseal2.html

http://www.semasan.com/page.asp?cont...olbox&g=SEMAGA

I just tried the first link and when I clicked the Idaho tab my computer had a hard failure, went to blue screen with message it shut down to prevent further damage. Shut it off and it appears to have rebooted ok (thanks to very aggressive virus prevention programs I run).

[1project2many]

The link brings me to dmv.org which has this seemingly generic information for Idaho:

"If you have a custom-built car in Idaho, you'll need to contact your local DMV office to have it registered and titled. While the registration process may be very similar to registering a regular car (see above), you may need to submit additional documents depending on your vehicle and parts. "

[iowaboynca]

This makes me think of that Stacey David build with the '32 ford roadster...
Also how do guys register kit cars? wouldn't this be the same thing?

[ptc]

This would be the easiest way to build a "OPM" truck..... "Other Peoples Money" If you are using all of their products the fitment isnt bad at all. Ive seen whole front clips put together and they go together nice. Compared to paying a shop $200K to build a new truck out of a "20 year-old field sitter" I think I'd rather pay for this kit and have them work on a REAL NEW truck. All things considered new, you could put together a complete (really nice) brand new truck pretty easily for $80K...

WHo cares about the dmv stuff - not the point of this thread!