64 C10 - gets a T5 transmission

[akqj9]

I have a 1964 C10 long bed with a straight 6 and 3 on the tree. I pulled the 3 speed and am trying to get my new T5 trans to slide in but it won't go the last 3 inches. It is hard to push up the back and push forward at the same time. I don't have a lift. I think I need to lift the rear of the trans and get it more straight since I think it is hanging up on the clutch fingers.

Any tips on making it slide in easier? Tomorrow I was going to try a floor jack to lift the rear while I push. The last time I installed a trans I had to use C clamps or long bolts to crank it in the last few inches.

I had to cut the 4 rivets that held the cross member so I could remove it because the new trans is 5 inches longer. I will bolt it back in once the trans goes in.

[akqj9]

also, I cut a new hole in the floor board the size of a business card which is about 1/2" smaller on each side than the box on the trans for the shifter. What size should the hole be?

thanks!

[akaupp]

When I did my last T5, I removed the hump and lifted the trans from in the cab.

[Lugnutz65]

Originally Posted by akqj9

I have a 1964 C10 long bed with a straight 6 and 3 on the tree. I pulled the 3 speed and am trying to get my new T5 trans to slide in but it won't go the last 3 inches. It is hard to push up the back and push forward at the same time. I don't have a lift. I think I need to lift the rear of the trans and get it more straight since I think it is hanging up on the clutch fingers.

Any tips on making it slide in easier? Tomorrow I was going to try a floor jack to lift the rear while I push. The last time I installed a trans I had to use C clamps or long bolts to crank it in the last few inches.

I had to cut the 4 rivets that held the cross member so I could remove it because the new trans is 5 inches longer. I will bolt it back in once the trans goes in.

I am certain I can help you. I just swapped 2 T5 transmissions this week all by myself.

First, here are some of my observations. It looks like you have a T5 from an S10 and that it has already had the Jeep shaft swap done. That means you have 10 splines on the input shaft. All that is good news. The T5 should slide in fine as long as the pilot tip has been trimmed the correct amount.

Here are things to check.
1. Make sure the distance from the pilot tip to the front of the T5 case is the same distance as your 3 speed.
2. If the pilot bushing is new, you need to make sure the center hole of the bushing is not smaller than the pilot tip (mine was). If so, just use some 150 grit sandpaper to gradually enlarge it until the pilot tip fits.

Do NOT use the bolts to PULL the T5 up to the bell. Doing that can break the ears of the tranny.

When I installed a T5 this week, I had the truck up on jack stands. I had it high enough so that I could lay on my back with the T5 on my chest. I was able to use my left knee to help support the rear of the T5. That allows you to spin the main shaft with your left hand until it aligns with the 10 splines of the clutch disk. Having a helper makes it much easier. The T5 case should slide right up to the bell housing.

Here is a DIY I wrote up to help with the installation.

[Lugnutz65]

The cross member for the eBrake can be bolted back but below the frame if you use spacers. See photo.

[akqj9]

THANKS for the quick reply and the advice not to use bolts to draw it in. I have the front wheels on ramps and I spent over an hour on my back using my knees to try to get the back elevated enough. My arms are pretty sore now, but I plan to get back at it tomorrow. I don't know why it takes so much pressure to elevate the end.

I'd hate to take it back down to make the floor hole bigger. What size should the hole be?

[Lugnutz65]

Originally Posted by akqj9

What size should the hole be?

Here are some pics that might help.

[62stepside longbox]

The clutch has no play at all when it is on the input shaft so the tranny will need to be in exactly the right spot in order to slide in. It helps if you have two people. One person holds up the tranny and tries to push it in while the other person spins the tail shaft (while in gear) so that the splines line up and it slides in. Also what lugnutz65 said about the pilot bushing and the pilot tip fitting. Another thing that will make it easier is to make sure that the clutch return spring is off so you can freely move around the throw out fork and bearing.

[Paul Y]

A little tip learnt years ago during my time as a grease monkey.

Get either threaded bar are looooong bolts with the heads cut off, long enough to thread into the bell housing ( or back of the block if you have the bellhousing attached to the gearbox) and protrude a good 1" or 2 through the mounting lugs.

You will need 2 of these.

Screw these guides into the bell/ block, one on either side, and then, when you lift the gearbox up and onto the guides you will know that the gearbox is square to the bellhousing/block.

It also means that you can do it by yourself as the weight of the box is taken by the guides, you can then 'wiggle' it into place provided that you have the clutch aligned etc.

Works, and means that you don't ruin the clutch by hanging the box off of it.

Don't forget to Cut a slot in the end of what ever you use so that you can use a screwdriver to unwind it once you have it bolted up with the proper fasteners.

Let us know how you get on.

P.

[mehoff400]

wow great to see this thread as i am having the exact same problems with my 65. i can get it all except the last inch. yesterday i pulled the t-5 back out and sanded on the fork some thinking it was holding the bearing incorrectly causing it to shift the input shaft. man i am sick of laying on my back and lifting this t-5.

[Wrenchbender Ret]

You have to watch those plastic alignment tools. They are not precise. If it wont go that last inch or so, hook up the clutch linkage & have someone press the clutch in. That will usually let it go the rest of the way. Its best to use an old trans shaft. I miked the plastic one & the end of a real one & there was .006 difference. The plastic one being smaller.

[mehoff400]

got the T5 almost in.. it has about 1/4 of an inch before it contacts the bellhousing. i am waiting on the girlfriend to get her nails done to help push in the clutch to see if i can get it the rest of the way.

[Wrenchbender Ret]

Originally Posted by mehoff400

got the T5 almost in.. it has about 1/4 of an inch before it contacts the bellhousing. i am waiting on the girlfriend to get her nails done to help push in the clutch to see if i can get it the rest of the way.

Another thought.
Did you grind the splines back or cut into the clutch hub? The splines may be hanging in the clutch disc.

[mehoff400]

Originally Posted by Wrenchbender Ret

Another thought.
Did you grind the splines back or cut into the clutch hub? The splines may be hanging in the clutch disc.

not sure exactly what you mean but i did not do either. girlfriend showed up and had her press in the clutch and still no go. it looks like its possibly hitting the lip of the firewall. Its hard to tell if its just really close to it or if its actually hitting it.

[Lugnutz65]

Originally Posted by mehoff400

wow great to see this thread as i am having the exact same problems with my 65. i can get it all except the last inch. yesterday i pulled the t-5 back out and sanded on the fork some thinking it was holding the bearing incorrectly causing it to shift the input shaft. man i am sick of laying on my back and lifting this t-5.

True story. I went to help a buddy install a T5. He had just installed a new pilot bushing, clutch and pressure plate and his 1966 short stepper was up on jack stands ready for the T5. Try as we might, we could NOT get the last 1/2" to go. The problem was that his brand new pilot bushing was not driven in completely. Once we figured that part out things went smoothly. So make sure that pilot bushing is driven all the way home.

Here's the rest of the story. It took us 11 hours to install that T5. Once we figured out the pilot bushing was not driven in far enough, we couldn't get it to budge. Broke some tools including a pilot bushing puller and then some drill bits. We had to drill the brand new bushing into 3 pieces so it would collapse inside the crank. Then we put a thin layer of grease on another bushing and some additional inside the end of the crank and drove it home using an old input shaft. That way we could also check and be sure the ID of the bushing hadn't shrunk down any during the installation. Needless to say we were exhausted after that ordeal. But I'm happy to say it was all worth it to know my buddy can cruise in OD. He loves his new T5.

[mehoff400]

Originally Posted by Lugnutz65

True story. I went to help a buddy install a T5. He had just installed a new pilot bushing, clutch and pressure plate and his 1966 short stepper was up on jack stands ready for the T5. Try as we might, we could NOT get the last 1/2" to go. The problem was that his brand new pilot was not driven in completely. Once we figured that part out things went smoothly. So make sure that pilot bushing is driven all the way home.

Here's the rest of the story. It took us 11 hours to install that T5. Once we figured out the pilot bushing was not driven in far enough, we couldn't get it to budge. Broke some tools including a pilot bushing puller and then some drill bits. We had to drill the brand new bushing into 3 pieces so it would collapse inside the crank. Then we put a thin layer of grease on another bushing and some additional inside the end of the crank and drove it home using an old input shaft. That way we could also check and be sure the ID of the bushing hadn't shrunk down any during the installation. Needless to say we were exhausted after that ordeal. But I'm happy to say it was all worth it to know my buddy can cruise in OD. He loves his new T5.

if i remember correctly it just needed to be flush correct? or does it need to be installed as far in as possible?

[Lugnutz65]

Originally Posted by mehoff400

if i remember correctly it just needed to be flush correct? or does it need to be installed as far in as possible?

I wanna say flush is OK. However, to be sure it really is in far enough, measure from the back surface of the bushing to the back surface of the bell. Compare that to the distance from the T5 case to the very front edge of the shaft splines. That's how we finally figured out what our problem was during my buddy's T5 installation.

[mehoff400]

Originally Posted by Lugnutz65

I wanna say flush is OK. However, to be sure it really is in far enough, measure from the back surface of the bushing to the back surface of the bell. Compare that to the distance from the T5 case to the very front edge of the shaft splines. That's how we finally figured out what our problem was during my buddy's T5 installation.

sounds like the t5 will be coming back out... thanks for the suggestion

[akqj9]

A big THANKS for all the tips and the dimensions on the floor hole. I made some alignment studs and was able to hang the trans on there so I didn't need to bench press it while I tried to coax the last few inches. I had my daughter come out and pump the clutch back and forth while I wiggled, twisted and pushed and it finally went in. I'm sure glad I took the extra time to cut slots in my alignment bolts since they were a little hard to get out.

Tomorrow I take my drive line to get shortened. I think my old yoke was not 27 splines since it would not slide in. I think the driveline guy can get one.

I hate the look of the S10 shift arm. I would like it to look like an old 4 speed with a plain black shaft.

[akqj9]

The T5 is missing the 4 bolts to hold the shift lever top plate in. I think these transmissions are metric. What size and thread pitch do I use? thanks

[Lugnutz65]

Originally Posted by akqj9

The T5 is missing the 4 bolts to hold the shift lever top plate in. I think these transmissions are metric. What size and thread pitch do I use? thanks

The shifter base plate bolts are #8 X 1.25 pitch IIRC.

[akqj9]

Now I need a longer speedo cable. For stock sized tires is there a cable / gear set I can order that at least is close to the real speed when installed?

thanks

[Lugnutz65]

Originally Posted by akqj9

Now I need a longer speedo cable. For stock sized tires is there a cable / gear set I can order that at least is close to the real speed when installed?

thanks

Longbed and shortbed should take the same size cable. I bought my new cable from NAPA speedo cable BK 615-1606 which is 87" but if you can find an 84" cable that would be best. My 87" cable is plenty long.

Inside the T5 you have a drive gear that is either blue or red. See photo.
Use THIS ONLINE CALCULATOR and use the section named SPEEDOMETER GEAR CALCULATOR to determine what driven gear you need. You will need to know what your rear tire diameter is, the rear axle ratio (diff gear), and the number of drive gear teeth in your T5. Blue has 7 teeth and red has 9 teeth.

Driven gears are available new from vendors (HERE IS ONE) but are only available in 18 teeth through 22 teeth. If the online calculator shows you need a driven gear that's no available, please post your info and maybe there is another solution, such as a speedo ratio reducer. (see picture)

[Old Bleu]

Regarding the S10 shifter, I bought a stick from Speedway. It was chrome, but I roughed it up and painted it black. It now looks just like an old 4 speed shifter.

[akqj9]

Thanks for the lead on a shifter. I plan to put a 4 speed knob on it. Nobody else should be driving it and I will know the 5 speed pattern.