HP Tuners -- Unlimited ECMs possible single VIN? Megasquirt instead?

[crakarjax]

I'm at the phase of my project where I'm looking at which programs to use to flash my ECM. Unfortunately the options seem really restrictive for the price. I'd like to be able to flash at least 2 ECMs, with one as a backup and to tinker with or to use for future builds. I'm wondering though, is it possible to do the following:

- Use 2 credits for a single VIN and then just flash all my ECMs to the same vin?
- Or, get a year/model license and flash ECMs to that year/model?

Given that I don't care what the actual VIN is, I figure someone on these boards would probably have thought of this before!

Another option I've considered now is Megasquirt. It looks like the hardware is pricey but you don't have to mess with licensing for the tunes. However, it seems like this would be more expensive if I go LS on future projects.

[BR3W CITY]

The unlimited model unlock is equal to roughly 5 ECM unlocks. For us, it made sense.

[crakarjax]

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

The unlimited model unlock is equal to roughly 5 ECM unlocks. For us, it made sense.

lol, how does unlimited turn into 5? Realistically that will last me forever, but still -- I'd like to know that I *could* do unlimited ECMs if that's what I'm paying for!

[BR3W CITY]

I meant cost wise.

[crakarjax]

Well unlimited is 6 credits and 5 ECMs would be 5x2 = 10 credits -- so unlimited year/model is more like 3 ECMs which I suppose makes it even more benficial in that case.

Am I understanding correctly that for a year/model license, I could just buy ECMs from say 2004 Silverados exclusively and work with an unlimited number of them? Sounds like that might be the way to go, if so -- but that makes it kind of a PITA for finding ECMs.

[davepl]

Originally Posted by crakarjax

- Use 2 credits for a single VIN and then just flash all my ECMs to the same vin?

That'd be a pretty blatant violation of the licensing agreement, even if it worked. You're likely not the kind of guy who would shoplift the interface, so don't heist the software that goes with it... if you meant for widespread use. If you really mean literally 2 ECMs, then it comes with enough credits for that already.

There are probably legal implications of flashing multiple different vehicles with the same VIN (though I don't know for sure), though if those ECMs never go in other vehicles, that's probably fine I'd imagine.

I think it's pay to play. These companies made great tools and set a price. Pick from the menu, but it is what it is. Like I said the HPTuners box should come with enough credits to do 2-3, as I've done my Escalade and C6 and read my C7 without additional credits.

[Willie Makeit]

you can't "assign" the same VIN to multiple PCM's.

[davepl]

Originally Posted by Willie Makeit

you can't "assign" the same VIN to multiple PCM's.

I've never tried, but now I'm curious. Does HPTuners just prevent it or can it not be done? I'd imagine that if your ECM dies, GM can assign a VIN to a new ECM. But at a minimum I bet that's a one-time thing, can't be rewritten.

I'd say it probably requires a fancy Tech 2 machine or something, but since HPTuners can do pretty much everything else, if they don't do it, it's either by choice or because it's impossible, I'd wager.

[crakarjax]

Originally Posted by davepl

That'd be a pretty blatant violation of the licensing agreement, even if it worked. You're likely not the kind of guy who would shoplift the interface, so don't heist the software that goes with it... if you meant for widespread use. If you really mean literally 2 ECMs, then it comes with enough credits for that already.

There are probably legal implications of flashing multiple different vehicles with the same VIN (though I don't know for sure), though if those ECMs never go in other vehicles, that's probably fine I'd imagine.

I think it's pay to play. These companies made great tools and set a price. Pick from the menu, but it is what it is. Like I said the HPTuners box should come with enough credits to do 2-3, as I've done my Escalade and C6 and read my C7 without additional credits.

The EULA [1] only specifies that you can run the software on one computer -- I'm not talking about doing anything otherwise and really their business model looks like monetization of the hardware and credits while giving the software out for free. After all you can install a fully featured demo, it's just useless without credits and the hardware.

I am the kind of guy that's likely to tinker with my ECM and break it, and to me one vehicle should mean that I can replace my broken ECM if/when that happens in my vehicle.

What they seem to have in mind with their licensing is a tunershop that tunes vehicles that actually came stock with the ECM. They don't seem to have a concept of LS conversions that have no case what the VIN is, which makes sense because there is no way for them to limit the use of their hardware without some unique key to lock it to.

I think that's all a moot point though as it seems like the model/year license would technically allow me to flash unlimited ECMs as long as I can find a supply... which is also probably not what they had in mind when creating their licensing structure but technically within the scope of the license.

[1] https://www.hptuners.com/help/introd..._agreement.htm

[crakarjax]

Originally Posted by Willie Makeit

you can't "assign" the same VIN to multiple PCM's.

From HPTuners help. In order to change the VIN with HPTuners though, you have to have credits for both the source and destination VIN. Tech2 and EFILive also can change the VIN.

Changing the VIN
Using the Change VIN function allows you to easily change the VIN of the vehicle you are connected to.
This method changes the VIN without having to write a new flash file to the vehicle. Using the Change VIN form will not change the VIN of the file you currently have open.


Procedure
To make VIN changes permanent please use the following steps:

1. Connect to the vehicle and select Change VIN from the Flash menu.
2. Enter your new valid VIN and click Commit VIN Changes.
3. Wait 15 seconds after VIN changes have completed.
4. Turn Ignition off for 30 seconds.
5. Turn Ignition on for 30 seconds.
6. Turn Ignition off for 30 seconds.
7. Turn Ignition on for 30 seconds.
8. The new VIN is now stored.


Change VIN Rules
The following checks are in place when using the Change VIN function:

* You must have support for the vehicle you are modifying.
* You must have support for the new VIN you are trying to write.
* The new VIN must be valid and must qualify for the OS currently found on the VCM.

[Willie Makeit]

- Use 2 credits for a single VIN and then just flash all my ECMs to the same vin?

your question above reads as if you only want to use 2 credits and then flash multiple PCMs. You can put the same VIN on multiple PCMs but it's gonna cost more than 2 credits.

anywhoo, give it a try. keep up with the credit you use. let us know how it works out.

[crakarjax]

Originally Posted by Willie Makeit

your question above reads as if you only want to use 2 credits and then flash multiple PCMs. You can put the same VIN on multiple PCMs but it's gonna cost more than 2 credits.

anywhoo, give it a try. keep up with the credit you use. let us know how it works out.

Yeah that's what I meant by needing to have credits for both the source and destination VIN. I'm thinking I could ship a stack of 5 ECMs to someone I know with a Tech2 for VIN modification but again, the year/model license seems a lot easier/more flexible. I'm a ways off from even needing to mess with ECMs but I'll post back with whatever I find out.

[clinebarger]

What your attempting is called Fraud!!!, Not that it will work anyway...... If you don't like their business model, Engineer your own tuning software!

If you brick a PCM, How is that HPT's fault, That's right.....I forget the society we live in today.

[sprint_9]

HP tuners doesn't license off of only the VIN. There is another serial number individual to the ECM that it uses as well, this is a unique number.

[crakarjax]

Originally Posted by clinebarger

What your attempting is called Fraud!!!, Not that it will work anyway...... If you don't like their business model, Engineer your own tuning software!

If you brick a PCM, How is that HPT's fault, That's right.....I forget the society we live in today.

It's not fraud, I'm not trying to make any money from their products or use them as they aren't intended.

I've contacted the folks at HP Tuners and they said that getting a year/model license and using it on several ECMs is fine.

[sprint_9]

Originally Posted by crakarjax

I've contacted the folks at HP Tuners and they said that getting a year/model license and using it on several ECMs is fine.

That is fine using a year model license, completely within the rules.

But what you had described in your first post looked like a way to to not purchase the year model licence and instead look for a way to cheat the system by changing VIN / ECM numbers around without using credits.

[crakarjax]

Originally Posted by sprint_9

That is fine using a year model license, completely within the rules.

But what you had described in your first post looked like a way to to not purchase the year model licence and instead look for a way to cheat the system by changing VIN / ECM numbers around without using credits.

That was just one of the two options I was exploring to facilitate my own personal use case. The package comes with 8 licenses so either option is going to cost me the same amount of money.

[Willie Makeit]

Originally Posted by sprint_9

But what you had described in your first post looked like a way to to not purchase the year model licence and instead look for a way to cheat the system by changing VIN / ECM numbers around without using credits.

let him go. he'll figure it out eventually.

[crakarjax]

Originally Posted by Willie Makeit

let him go. he'll figure it out eventually.

If you see something in my plans to use year/model with multiple ECMs that won't work please let me know.

[Willie Makeit]

Originally Posted by crakarjax

If you see something in my plans to use year/model with multiple ECMs that won't work please let me know.

everybody in this thread has pointed out multiple times what you can and can't do. no need to rehash it again.

[crakarjax]

Originally Posted by Willie Makeit

everybody in this thread has pointed out multiple times what you can and can't do. no need to rehash it again.

Well if you think you know better than HP Tuners tech support then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

[davepl]

If you go the single-year license and HPTuners says that's OK, then you're golden. The multiple VINs thing wasn't, that's all.

[BR3W CITY]

Alright I got tired of reading the argument so I talked to Bill @ Hp Tuners, and since its his company, I trust his answer:

First, the VIN itself is not the important part of the factor. You can have the same vin on multiple ECM's, that alone doesn't matter. For all intensive purposes, you can have the VIN be 16x 1's and HPT doesn't really care.

Each ECM, no matter year or model, has a number that you can't see. When you scan the ECM and it performs a CheckSUM (you can see this on the read), it is basically validating the internal hard-coded programming of your ECM and any other major components (TCM, LAN modules). That number cannot be seen, and cannot be modified or changed in any way. This number is what is actually being "registered" when credits are purchased.

You will not be able to flash 2 ECM's with the same tune, even if you could have the VIN changed by another means. So you cannot flash 2 ECM's with a TECHII/III, then flash them both with the same HPT license.

I'll just tell you guys FWIW, no one gets by on HPT. For all intensive purposes, 1 ecm = 1 license, no way around it.

[crakarjax]

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

Alright I got tired of reading the argument so I talked to Bill @ Hp Tuners, and since its his company, I trust his answer:

First, the VIN itself is not the important part of the factor. You can have the same vin on multiple ECM's, that alone doesn't matter. For all intensive purposes, you can have the VIN be 16x 1's and HPT doesn't really care.

Each ECM, no matter year or model, has a number that you can't see. When you scan the ECM and it performs a CheckSUM (you can see this on the read), it is basically validating the internal hard-coded programming of your ECM and any other major components (TCM, LAN modules). That number cannot be seen, and cannot be modified or changed in any way. This number is what is actually being "registered" when credits are purchased.

You will not be able to flash 2 ECM's with the same tune, even if you could have the VIN changed by another means. So you cannot flash 2 ECM's with a TECHII/III, then flash them both with the same HPT license.

I'll just tell you guys FWIW, no one gets by on HPT. For all intensive purposes, 1 ecm = 1 license, no way around it.

That's good info, thanks! IMO this info should be on HP Tuners' webpage.

[sprint_9]

Originally Posted by sprint_9

HP tuners doesn't license off of only the VIN. There is another serial number individual to the ECM that it uses as well, this is a unique number.

Hmmmm