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05-08-2017, 03:21 PM | #1 |
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The "Evil" Squarebody pardoned
This may be old news to some of you, but with this all this fuss about a "fake news" , I just saw an interesting video of NBC admitting to their exploding gas tank lie. You can look it up, if you do not believe me.
Now, who wants to bet Ford or Chrysler is involved in this fabrication? |
05-08-2017, 05:05 PM | #2 |
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Re: The "Evil" Squarebody pardoned
Yep..but that's about 25 yr old news though
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05-08-2017, 06:53 PM | #3 |
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Re: The "Evil" Squarebody pardoned
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05-08-2017, 10:31 PM | #4 |
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Re: The "Evil" Squarebody pardoned
60 minutes was caught years ago adding explosives to the square body trucks to make them explode when hit from the side....I don't believe anything on the news or 60 minutes
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05-08-2017, 10:35 PM | #5 |
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Re: The "Evil" Squarebody pardoned
Look at the older cars 70s back where the gas tank was right by the back bumper
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05-08-2017, 11:42 PM | #6 |
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Re: The "Evil" Squarebody pardoned
Link? Don't worry, googled it on my own. Handy just to be able to click tho.
This may not be old news for me. My insurance co wants to charge 50% more for my 82 C15 than my 93 Z71. 9 years older and a 2WD. Anybody else run into this? Almost wonder if the underwriters are using that saddle tank business to leverage higher rates. Last edited by LT7A; 05-09-2017 at 01:42 AM. |
05-09-2017, 12:12 AM | #7 | |
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Re: The "Evil" Squarebody pardoned
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05-09-2017, 12:15 AM | #8 |
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Re: The "Evil" Squarebody pardoned
No issues with my insurance either on mine..
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05-09-2017, 08:41 AM | #9 |
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Re: The "Evil" Squarebody pardoned
Some previous discussion:
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...ghlight=saddle http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...ghlight=saddle http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...ghlight=saddle http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...ghlight=saddle http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...ghlight=saddle
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05-09-2017, 12:41 PM | #10 |
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Re: The "Evil" Squarebody pardoned
Wow Keith, you really know how to crush the hysteria. Thanks for the input.
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05-09-2017, 02:38 PM | #11 | |
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Re: The "Evil" Squarebody pardoned
Quote:
K
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05-09-2017, 11:51 PM | #12 | |
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Re: The "Evil" Squarebody pardoned
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05-10-2017, 01:58 AM | #13 |
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Re: The "Evil" Squarebody pardoned
Probably because your newer truck has a air bag while the older truck don't.
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05-10-2017, 09:03 AM | #14 |
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05-10-2017, 11:19 AM | #15 |
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Re: The "Evil" Squarebody pardoned
Airbags became mandatory for the 1995 and up years.
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05-11-2017, 08:54 AM | #16 |
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Re: The "Evil" Squarebody pardoned
Just to clarify, my insurance co didn't say anything about the tanks. I just can't see that the SquareBodies should be 50% more costly to insure than the OBSs. Usually a newer rig that is a 4x4 would be more expensive to insure than a truck that is 11 years older and 2wd. The only other thing that I can think of is that the '93 trucks have rear ABS. But 50%? That ain't gonna fly. My '82 C15 is not on the road right now, but when it's ready my insurance co may lose a customer.
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05-13-2017, 03:46 AM | #17 |
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Re: The "Evil" Squarebody pardoned
Interestingly, I looked into this a little more. NBC was certainly way out of line. And their actions seem to have taken much of the focus off of the issue and moved it onto the theatrics. There is a group, The Center for Auto Safety, who is not aligned with lawyers who would benefit of finding fault with GM but are a consumer advocate group. They also have their own agenda, make no mistake, but they present ongoing information as pertains to this issue and have some of the backup documents which are interesting. Here's the web address:
http://www.autosafety.org/history-gm...s-tank-defect/ Many of the links internal to this thread don't function and I began to doubt its veracity until I got to some links that worked and began to see a different, fuller picture. There is no comparison information on how other non-saddle-tank trucks performed in a side impact collision so it is difficult to say what the degree of risk is. But GM has paid out over $50 million because of these trucks for "safety programs" in a settlement with the DOT. And has paid out a total of at least $500 million to settle claims arising from this design. I love my trucks and have grown up with/in cars made by the General. But this is worth reviewing for yourself and deciding what you think. It's not an issue of propaganda instigated by NBC. And it wasn't over when GM sued NBC and NBC apologized for their pyrotechnics. |
05-13-2017, 10:46 AM | #18 | ||
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Re: The "Evil" Squarebody pardoned
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I don't see anything new in the link you posted, except they claim the total number of deaths attributed to side saddle tanks was 2000 (as opposed to NHTSA's number of 1800). I agree that each vehicle death is a tragedy, but the added tragedy is the priority placed on this. How many abortions are performed each year? Between 3/4 million to 1.5 million each year. How many die from alcohol or texting while driving each year? In terms of texting there are roughly 11 teen deaths per day. As my statistical analysis showed*: because there are roughly 12,000 "slip and fall" fatalities each year - you are safer riding in a square body than you are walking. The odds are so low that I think it shows GM did a reasonable job in protecting their customers, and far exceeded the requirements of the Government mandated testing of the time. K *Reposting, in case you missed it. Please read this thoughtfully if you haven't already: Quote:
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07-24-2017, 02:08 AM | #19 | |
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Re: The "Evil" Squarebody pardoned
Hey Keith, I gave this awhile and thought I would see if anyone else commented. Interestingly, nobody did so I'll jump back in and reply to your comments as I go as noted by "LT7A:" in the blue section below.
Quote:
Last edited by LT7A; 07-24-2017 at 03:27 AM. |
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07-24-2017, 09:50 AM | #20 | |||
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Re: The "Evil" Squarebody pardoned
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I think our disconnect in this topic is that my preferred technique is to show that the vehicles were not statistically different than any other vehicles on the road, and you are looking for specific "A vs B" data on tank location within the same vehicle type. I don't believe you will find that data, because I don't think it exists. There was no room to move the tank inside the frame rail, because of the narrow arrangement, so those tests were probably not run on a C/K/R/V vehicle. The result could be emulated by adding a steel cage type shield to the outside of the tank, which did perform satisfactorily, and which was released as a service fix for pickups and as a production fix on chassis cab models. I appreciate that you are reading, and learning, and speculating, and looking for test data, but implicit in all this is this fact: if a person is looking to NHTSA or Clarence Ditlow’s organization for clear and unbiased reporting and recording – they are not going to find it there. As soon as you see hyperbole like "rolling firebomb" and "immediate holocaust" it is a red flag that these are embelishments designed to prey on the (non technically inclined) public's emotions. It is akin to sincerely wanting to learn about the Corvair by reading Ralph Nader's "Unsafe at any Speed". Relative to A vs B comparisons in general, as soon as the media colors public perception the engineer no longer has the opportunity for objective test data to stand on its own merits. The engineering team no longer has the ability to make incremental continuous improvements in design without ulterior motives being assigned, like "admitting the previous design was inferior" or "covering something up". It also punishes the design organization for not incorporating features or architectural changes not known to be available or significant until years later (like not putting air bags in a Model A Ford). I was looking for something else and immediately stumbled upon this, expecting it to be another “inflammatory” article. It does do a good job (perhaps a better job) of summarizing my feelings about the statistical performance of the vehicle in the field, and if large payouts are an admission of culpability. In the absence of the data you are looking for I would suggest the statistical rankings will have to suffice. http://walterolson.com/articles/gmtrucks.html/ K
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07-24-2017, 10:40 AM | #21 |
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Re: The "Evil" Squarebody pardoned
Also, from the same article (written in 1993):
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07-24-2017, 12:03 PM | #22 | |
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Re: The "Evil" Squarebody pardoned
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I would take the word of someone that was actually there, especially since you were/are an engineer. The first time I ever saw that news cast, years ago. I remember thinking then, "now that's just silly". Our family was/is GM. My Dad worked there also (retired now), and we have always owned Chevy Trucks. And not once did we ever fear for our safety, riding/driving them.
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