'59 front fender fitment

[brianp01]

Hey guys I am currently fitting up my fenders and doors on my '59. I've been able to dig up some good info advice on here and other sites that has served me well so far. Body line-wise things seem to be lining up alright. I'm having trouble more with the gap widths in the cowl area from top view I guess.

But I'm having trouble with getting the drivers side gap between the front fender and cab tightened up. It is quite a bit wider than the passenger side. I've tried shifting the front core support area over to compensate, helped a little but not enough. The fender also seems to pitch downward slightly towards the front,one thing I haven't tried yet is shimming the core support more to rectify this slope. Anybody have any tips & tricks to getting the fenders to fit better.

Also I've been using the old door hinges as I fit everything up. I thought they were salvageable but after fitting the doors maybe not, also may need to replace/repair the lower door hing pockets. My thought was to first maybe replace these worn components, re-fit the doors then re-fit the fenders. Any help/tips greatly appreciated.

Attached are some pictures of where I'm at. The hood is just sitting on top just to get a quick check, that will get fit later.

Thanks,
Brian

[OrrieG]

Look at the attached photo, notice the peened area a the top of the inner jamb area, circled in red. My truck has never had the driver side fender removed and it had it, as well as the passenger side. I found a thread where a guy said that GM had a design defect in the fender brace and this area. Rather than have to redesign the stamping dies they just issued ball peen hammers to the fender installers to provide relief as needed in that area. That might be your issue, but some guys have said their trucks do not have it. The guy in the thread said he fixed his then got to beat on his new paint to get fitment.

I know my passenger fender is a bugger in that area, take two people, one to hold it in place, second to tighten the top bolt. It looks like it is flaring our at the front too, my truck had shims between the radiator support and inner fender to get the hood gap righ, make sure you are fitting the hood at the same time. I also have to use a porta power to push the front of the fender up and in (I put it between the tire in inner eyebrow) to get clearance at the bottom next to the door. My truck has been hit in the front at some point and I found a lot of the repairs I did didn't line up and I had to modify them back to where the original body man had them. Not fun, I spent two weekends getting mine right.

Also, looking at your photo, you might need to trim the large top washer on the cab and fender sides, I seem to remember that was an issue with mine too.

[brianp01]

Thanks Orrie! It's funny you mention that peening, mine had that, I thought it was a dent so I took the hammer and dolly to it to pop it out. I'll definitely take a look at that. I had the same problem you mentioned as well, it took two of us to get that bolt in and hold the fender in place. Thanks again I appreciate it!

[_Ogre]

my 58 truk has a similar gap on the drivers side, a little better on the pass side
designed and built as a truck, not the hotrods we made them into

can't see it from here

[dsraven]

check the doors for cracks, get the hinges rebuilt/replaced so they are tight and secure. when the door is opened there should be no slop or twist. when that is fitted correctly to the cab then worry about the fender.

[brianp01]

Originally Posted by dsraven

check the doors for cracks, get the hinges rebuilt/replaced so they are tight and secure. when the door is opened there should be no slop or twist. when that is fitted correctly to the cab then worry about the fender.

Hey Raven thanks for the reply. That was going to be my next step. I just got new hinges in last week, and lower hinge pockets(door side) yesterday to tighten up the doors cause there definitely is some slop there now. That will be this weekends project. Thanks again
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[dsraven]

you need to get the doors, hinges and pillars solid. basically if the door is open and you were to grasp it and give it some twisting action it should resist, not be a wet sponge in your hands. then try lifting up on it to check for any hinge issues. then start by removing the fenders and doors and inner panels that hide the hinges and start looking closely everywhere for cracks and rust out, down inside the pillars, at the base of the pillars, hinge bolt on areas of the pillars and doors, hinges pins and bushings, doors at the hinge mounts and also cracks at the base of the vent window and spot welds near the handles.

[brianp01]

Thanks Raven, I'm pretty confident on the can side of things, I've replaced the the lower hinge pocket areas and the cowl bent areas on both sides of the van. Structurally they should be sound. The door lower hinge pockets are another animal though, here is where There is some rot and where I'm getting slip. The hinges are original and they have seen better days. My mission this weekend is to replace the lower door hinge pockets and then re fit the doors with the new hinges I bought and go from there. I'll post some update pics as I go to get your guys feedback as I go. Thanks again man, I appreciate all the help and advice.
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[brianp01]

I definitely check out the upper hinge pocket on the door side as well, they look good but I get a better look at them too.
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[BIGglaSS]

Ironically, I have been working on that same gap the last two days. Drivers side fits nice, but passenger side looks like yours. I am now at the point of slice and weld to tighten up the gap. There is no evidence of this cab being in a wreck, yet the passenger side door opening is over 1/4" narrower than the drivers side. Thus causing a LOT of fitment issues.

[dsraven]

have you checked the cab mounts under the floor? most of the time the cowl drains got filled with debris and water couldn't get out so it built up inside the cowl until it spilled out onto the floor and rusted out the lower pillar area and fender mounts, the floor section, parts of the step and the cab mounts. if that whole area isn't brought back to good metal so it ties in properly then it can allow flex that makes it hard to get stuff lined up to stay consistently correct after running over bumps and slamming the doors.it doesn't hurt to check the metal around the rear cab mounts as well, they rust out and allow flex too. also the back side of the front fenders in the mount area.
once all that is good start by replacing the cab and rad support rubber, then hang the doors and get them to open/close well, then hang the fenders and lower grill spacer between the lower parts of the fenders, then the hood and find the happy spot. you may have to shim the front cab mounts or rad support to get things fitting well. you can use a couple of magnets and some string, run fore to aft on the body line, to get things straight and lined up horizontally. if you are concerned about gaps then you may have to shave some here and there or build up some in spots.

[dsraven]

don't use too big of a washer under the upper fender cowl mount bolt, it can stop the inward movement of the fender if the washer butts against the fender side.

[brianp01]

Cab supports under the floor are good, I replaced the mount bushings and bolts, those are good to go and also replaced the mounts under the core support. I used a stack of those U shaped shims under the drivers side fender/ cowl bolt, I'll double check those make sure there's no interference issues maybe switched to smaller round washers if need be. Thanks again for the help and tips, I appreciate it. I'll post some progress shots as I go
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[my56chevytruck]

All those that have already commented are correct in their advice, I'd suggest a few more items. on the top hole that mounts the fenders to the cab, you can open the hole more giving you more room to move around, then when mounting the front fenders to the cab, get you some bungie cords and tie the 2 fenders together with them drawing the fenders in when bolting them down. I also had a friend over to help pull them in as well. Good luck and remember these are trucks 1st and hot rods thereafter.

[BIGglaSS]

Sorry to hijack the thread. Since I'm in the same spot. I have tried shimming the cab up and down, only to make it worse. I messed with it a little today, will have to slice, stretch, and add metal.





There was NO gap between the door frame and window frame. I have slowly worked it out to 1/16" gap, but still need another 1/8". The door is in it's final resting place... All rust repair has been done (except cab corners). I think I will push the A pillar forward another 1/16, and trim 1/16 off the door.

[dsraven]

just be careful to ensure the glass fits after moving A pillar. that would suck to have leaks or a no fit.

[dsraven]

can you move the door back some? that would fix the gaps on the A pillar to door and also the door to fender.

[dsraven]

if you look at the front of the rocker panel the door is actually forward of that point.the fender butts against that point so the door seems like it needs to go back some. same at the cowl gap and the door to A pillar gap. like the door is too far forward in general.

[BIGglaSS]

The entire door opening is 1/4" narrower than the other side. I'm not sure why. So I have to make up that room somewhere. Gap is perfect along the back (3/16"). If I move the door back, I will have to grind and weld for clearance both the front and back edge of the door. If I keep the door where it is at, I only have to clearance the front edge of the door window frame. I'm very concerned about the windshield not fitting. I hope moving it 1/16" shouldn't hurt it. I have thought about mounting the windshield to make sure. Can the windshield be removed without damaging the rubber?

The shape of the fender from the belt line up to the cowl, does not match the door. It is off by 3/8". I measured the surface distance of both (the red hash marks every inch from the belt line up). The Fender is over 1/4" less than the door. So when I get it to the correct shape, I will have to make up 1/4" metal to close the gap at the cowl.

It might be the camera angle, the rocker should be flush with the door. The front fender needs to go backward a little bit to get the back corner to line up with the back edge of the cowl. I have been working on adjusting and fitting this side of the truck for almost 2 months. The drivers side only took me a day. Time to get serious...

[dsraven]

big glass- the rear cab wall mounting may be the issue. it simply wraps around the B post and spot welds on. it could have easily been off spec at assembly. do a quick measure of both doors as well. possibly you have a larger than normal door. it wasn't rocket science back in the day, as long as the door went in the hole and opened /closed it was probably good enough for a truck. is that the original door for the cab? fender?
I have a set of fenders from a chevy to fit onto my gmc. same issue with the cowl fitment and the shape of the rear of the fender is off by 1/2" at the top. I will be adding metal there to get the fender gap the same as the door shape. I also have 3 sets of doors and they all fit totally different on the same cab.
I would say put the window in to ensure fitment and don't move the A pillar. you may end up with roof issues if you start down that road because it is all tied in plus the windshield may be a problem and they are hard enough to install when the cab is untouched. better to fit the door to the cab then fit the fender to the door. more work maybe but possibly not in the long run if you have trouble with the roof after pushing the pillar

[dsraven]

brianp01- if you take the upper rear fender to cowl mounting bolt out would you be able to close the gap and bring the fender in to match the door and the cowl better? if so just slot the hole in the fender enough to get the fender mounting bolt in. if you look at the mounting nut on the cowl part you will see it could have easily been out of alignment at the factory or possibly the cowl part was replaced at some time during the life of the truck. that could explain why the fender alignment is outta whack. you guys and your newer trucks, always gotta be perfect (mine is a 57 so waaaaay older, haha). check for the dent on the cowl that is there for clearance of the rear fender vertical brace. if no dent simply make one. remove the bolt on the lower fender mount and use some vice grips or similar to hold the fender roughly in place while you fit the top area. tape the door edge so you don't get that area beat up. that may help you bring the fender in if it is a hard push. tighten it down at the top then fit the bottom.
you may need to shim the rad support to get things sitting proper in alignment. try the string line from body line at the front by the headlight to body line at the rear behind the door. magnets work good to hold the string while you check it out from a distance or do measurements. put the string on tight, then space it out from the sheet metal by placing a small block between the body and the string at each attachment spot. then you can use another block of the same size between the string and body at any point along the body to check to straightness or bananna shape.

[brianp01]

thanks 56chevy, I'll probably try that bungee idea

[BIGglaSS]

Originally Posted by dsraven

big glass- the rear cab wall mounting may be the issue. it simply wraps around the B post and spot welds on. it could have easily been off spec at assembly. do a quick measure of both doors as well. possibly you have a larger than normal door. it wasn't rocket science back in the day, as long as the door went in the hole and opened /closed it was probably good enough for a truck. is that the original door for the cab? fender?
I have a set of fenders from a chevy to fit onto my gmc. same issue with the cowl fitment and the shape of the rear of the fender is off by 1/2" at the top. I will be adding metal there to get the fender gap the same as the door shape. I also have 3 sets of doors and they all fit totally different on the same cab.
I would say put the window in to ensure fitment and don't move the A pillar. you may end up with roof issues if you start down that road because it is all tied in plus the windshield may be a problem and they are hard enough to install when the cab is untouched. better to fit the door to the cab then fit the fender to the door. more work maybe but possibly not in the long run if you have trouble with the roof after pushing the pillar

Both doors are identical. The passenger door wouldn't shut when I got it. Cab and doors are '55 and are from the same truck. The rest of truck is '57.

I thought of moving the door back and taking metal off the back of the door, but that would be a lot more work.

The doors aren't the problem. After spending weeks/days/hours measuring, I have determined the error is in the cab, yet I don't know where to adjust it to fix it. (I just went out with the tape measure again. The difference is from the window frame and up. The cowl to back of the door jamb is equal on both sides.)

So it is either fix the cab, or grind the door to fit... BTW, I did floor pan repair and new step/rocker. Only thing I can think of is it got tweaked while making repairs. But, the door didn't fit when I bought it, so I doubt that the repairs contributed to the problem.

Oh, I just looked at the rocker. You're right, they don't line up. I made the rocker, so my fault. I probably moved the door after I tacked it in place. That will be an easy fix. I just want to get the door and fender to fit, then I'll make other things line up.

[brianp01]

Hey Raven, I can close the gap some if I remove the upper bolt. I replaced both cowl parts on the cab over the winter. I made sure to locate and place them exactly where they were before, but they could be off a bit. The cowl area dent was originally there, I couldn't figure out how the hell that area got dented...I ended up taking a hammer and dolly to it to fix the dent, didn't know that it was from the factory till this post. That is definitely on my list to check when I get back at it this weekend. I was thinking about giving that rad. support shim a try as well. Thanks again.

Hey BigGlass no worries on hijacking this thread, I have no problem with it, the more the merrier, it's good to see similar issues and different ways to attack the problem(s),
good luck getting that fender fit, hope it works out, let us know how you get to work

[dsraven]

brianp01. the dent is there for clearance of the rear fender brace that runs vertically up the back side of the fender. if you are having trouble getting the fender to move inwards then make a deeper dent if that is where the interference is. the fender should move easily not bump against anything. that was a reason for saying unbolt the bottom and get the top right first, then fit the bottom. more room for movement without touching anything behind the fender.

big glass, I just measured both my doors and one is 1/8" longer front to rear. factory doors and never had work done to them. I would rather grind the doors than goof around with the cab. figure out how much you need off the back edge, scribe a line on the door, cut out a short section at a time, a bit deeper than that srcibe to allow for some weld, then weld the spot with small welds to have less chance of distortion. cool the weld thoroughly before doing another spot and welding again. like take a whole morning or full day to finish the welding process.finish each one to be flush with your line before moving to the next area.make sure to connect the dots over the new area with another scribed line so you don't lose your line. a piece of thin flat stock and some clamps could be used to keep the panel flat while you tack it together. for the cowl to fender fit just add some to the cowl after the door/fender/rocker fit is complete.
that sounds so quick and easy. sorry.