WARNING: RANT! #!*%’g Aftermarket Side Windows & Wings

[Dan in Pasadena]

So I attempted to install my side windows and wings today. The result is a total dumpster fire. I am PISSED off at myself for stupidly thinking I got a “deal” on used-but-basically-new ones off Craigslist. This was 2+ yers ago. They’ve been resting in my garage awaiting inatallation.

These are apparently aftermarket chrome-framed windows and wings and they are dimensionally not even close to factory ones. And of course I got rid of my factory windows - let that be a lesson to me and everyone. USE FACTORY PARTS IF AT ALL POSSIBLE!

1. I followed the video on YouTube.
2. I applied THREE layers of masking tape to protect the paint.
3. The top of the divider bar stuck up too high to allow the installation but it appeared if I ground it down about 1/8” or so it would fit.
4. I swallowed hard and did it - see photo.
5. If the upper “tabs” on the wing assembly come close to aligning with the factory holes in the door, the larger main holes on the divider bar are too far “up” to get the bolts in.
6. There is no way to make these assemblies fit properly.
7. After attempting to install the wing assembly 2-3 times I pulled it out, peeled off the tape to find I’d CHIPPED THE HELL OUT OF MY NEW PAINT JOB!

So, a half hour later I’m barely calm enough to post this. I’ll take these assemblies with me to The Truck Shop to compare but frankly I doubt their new ones are significantly better. I’ll likely be shopping for used factory units - anyone have some they want to sell? Then I’ll have to totally disassemble them, have frames chromed, reassemble, yada, yada, yada.

Does ANYONE know if there is an aftermarket company that makes some that fit? Anyone have ANY advice that will help?

Here’s the damn pic’s.

[Divine 59]

Oh My! I am sad to learn of your troubles. I too was considering a change over from black windows to chrome on my forever project. I now am abandoning that road and staying with the basic parts my truck was born with. I hope you are successful in getting this worked out.

[vintovka]

Welcome to the world of "I'm sorry i bought it" repop parts sufferers. I have no doubt the foreign manufacturers employ underfed slave labor to make this stuff. Maybe trade tariffs might result in quality US made repops.

[bosco]

First off, very sorry about your paint. I can understand how you feel, and would be upset with myself as well.

I am surprised just how far off the mounting holes are... Not even in the ball park.

If the Truck stop doesn't have them, maybe LMC truck. Hopefully they would make some measurements for you. My replacement glass was after market and fit as they should. I'll dig up the paperwork were we got them.

Hang in there, your truck looks great and your paint will be fixed.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Thanks everyone for the kind words. Not even close is an understatement.

If I made the upper two small holes work then the front wind-wing-tabs wouldn’t be far enough forward to use the stock holes for those tabs.

I even considered just installing them whatever way I can as long as the divider bar is straight and will allow installation of the window, then making whatever changes are necessary to the door: Drill new holes, weld on larger tabs, etc to make them mount. Then I’d have to repaint the entire interior of the doors.

But I don’t know if there are still other problems with the main side window itself - likely!

[bosco]

Originally Posted by bosco

First off, very sorry about your paint. I can understand how you feel, and would be upset with myself as well.

I am surprised just how far off the mounting holes are... Not even in the ball park.

If the Truck stop doesn't have them, maybe LMC truck. Hopefully they would make some measurements for you. My replacement glass was after market and fit as they should. I'll dig up the paperwork were we got them.

Hang in there, your truck looks great and your paint will be fixed.

Found the information. Mine came from Tuckers Truck Parts. Good customer service, give them a call.

[my56chevytruck]

oh wow Dan, so sorry to read the bad news. especially about the paint. I can only wish you the best

[G&R's57GMC]

Geees Dan, I nicked the paint on the '57 taking out the vent window and I kicked myself for not using tape but it was just a small nick.

Good grief , what happened to your paint would make me spit nails , bolts and nuts !
Also Bang my Head on the wall for an hour or more !

I feel your pain !

Now walk away and find OE parts . When you get them take the truck back to the shop and have the paint repaired and have them install the vent windows .

All this in the name of BLING . I'm sorry I kept pushing bling .

[mongocanfly]

oh my......that sucks big-time. ...

[joedoh]

suck em in with some drywall screws and close the gap with paint grade silicone. viola!


just kidding. once I had a set of 53 wing windows on the shelf and they would have made a pretty formidable overhand weapon, you could do the same to vent some frustration.

[MARTINSR]

30 years ago I had a neighbor who was restoring a 65 Corvette. He got some reproduction parts delivered to my shop and opened the box there. I will never forget what he said, so profound it's crazy.

"If they wanted to be honest, in the catalog instead of saying exactly as original, they should put similar to original, can be used if nothing else is available."


Brian

[oldman3]

Dan, so sorry about the problems, hopefully you can from some OE stuff and then repaint...Jim

[1project2many]

Dan, that's really a biatch. I can remember how nervous I was re-installing my vent windows. I had spent time before paint was applied removing and installing them repeatedly so I had a feel for how to do it but I was still panicked.

I ran into fitment issues with my aftermarket rear glass. I spent hours trying to install it, then recruited professional help. I even sent pictures of the glass partially installed to the supplier for guidance and they said "Yep, it's the right glass. Keep trying. It will go." I was young so I kept trying but it was not the right glass. I completely destroyed a window gasket in the process which the glass supplier would not reimburse me for. I still remember how p*ssed I was at the supplier.

FWIW aftermarket parts have gone downhill in many ways over the years, and not just in the old truck hobby. We have to be extremely careful with the parts we put into the buses in our fleet. Once upon a time you could choose from brands ranging from junk to top-quality. These days every part seems to be "Buyer beware" regardless of whose name is on it.

[MiraclePieCo]

Regarding your paint damage:

That should be an easy touch up. Mask the surrounding area, sand and feather-edge the chipped area, spray color, sand with 1500-grit until the edges blend, hand buff out. Presto, no one will ever see it.

[buggy5872]

Dan,
On a side note. It looks like your inner structure needs welded also. The tab between the inner and outer door where the wing window track sits looks cracked.

[sack54]

To bad about the paint job, It can be fixed pretty easy. Now for the vent window
You have nothing to loose now ,how about cutting rivets out of the mounting tabs and put them where you need. then drill new holes and remount the tabs
in the right location, Plus when the tabs are removed you can test fit the window without the mount tabs, to check the fit . Rivets are easy to find or you can spot weld the mounting plates where you need them. Also masking tape first then put a couple of layers of duct tape over masking tape a lot better ,holds up a lot better when trying to install windows.
Good Luck

[Dan in Pasadena]

Thanks all you guys for the comments. I’ve thought about all your suggestions since yesterday. I’m going to take my vent window assemblies over to The Truck Shop this morning to compare them and see if there is a significant difference. And of course to ask if I can return them after I try to install them if they’re way off too.

I suppose changing the tab locations might work IF I can install the side window glass, get everything working and THEN decide where to put the tabs. Spot welding them would be best for that. Less chance to break the glass I guess.

As for the paint, now that I’ve F’d it up that ship has sailed. It would have to be feathered out and base coat/clear coated but AFTER the windows are installed and all done so nothing gets disturbed again.

[paulspickupparts]

I have several original frames if you go that way . I would pick out the best I have but would need total restoration and chrome. But they would fit.

There is a guy over on the 67-72 parts board that does the 67-72 Vent Windows. I think it is Roger Koop but can check and forward his name if you want. You might contact him if he would do a set of 55-59 . I was going to do a few pairs in chrome but unfortunately most guys buy the repos (less money) and did not think I could compete once I figured in labor , finding a good chromer, etc.

As far as I know at this time most of the repo stuff is made at the same plant then boxed into different boxes. I sometimes chuckle when I read where to buy the best fenders . A different(better) cardboard container does not make a better fitting fender does not make a better fitting fender. Frustrating , but my now most in the old car hobby have gotten used to being taken with a grain of salt. Sad

[ptc]

Originally Posted by Dan in Pasadena

As for the paint, now that I’ve F’d it up that ship has sailed. It would have to be feathered out and base coat/clear coated but AFTER the windows are installed and all done so nothing gets disturbed again.

Dan - as you know each one of these trucks is like a human being, they are all different. They have differing angles and edges and who knows how many 'repairs' through the years that somebody else could have messed up. The point is you need to do MOCK UP first with all your parts FIRST. If you had these windows for two years in your garage why in the world hadnt you tried to fit them into place and re-drill all the holes needed along time ago? Not ragging on ya my friend, but thats the way "building old vehicles" go. Its not necessarily the repops fault, even if you buy used OLD parts you better mock it up first because those were made to fit ANOTHER TRUCK.... not yours.

Bottom line is these old truck were hand made (at a factory), but those guys still made everything fit whatever truck they were working on that day.... Monday truck versus a FRIDAY Truck!!!! Good luck my friend, you'll figure it out.

[Fred n' Ethel]

Originally Posted by ptc

.... The point is you need to do MOCK UP first with all your parts FIRST. If you had these windows for two years in your garage why in the world hadnt you tried to fit them into place and re-drill all the holes needed along time ago? Not ragging on ya my friend, but thats the way "building old vehicles" go. Its not necessarily the repops fault, even if you buy used OLD parts you better mock it up first because those were made to fit ANOTHER TRUCK.... not yours.

Bottom line is these old truck were hand made (at a factory), but those guys still made everything fit whatever truck they were working on that day.... Monday truck versus a FRIDAY Truck!!!! Good luck my friend, you'll figure it out.

Ditto that !
SUPER valuable advice for ANY and ALL future endeavors.

[MARTINSR]

“Basics of Basics” Trial fitting parts
By Brian Martin

There are few procedures that give you more ‘Bang for your buck” than trial fitting parts. Sounds simple, just common sense. However, it is something that comes with very hard learned lessons. Even after doing this work for over twenty five years, I still forget once and a while. When I do, there is a good chance I will pay for it dearly.

Like the fabricators motto “If you don’t have a pile of rejects in the trash, you aren’t doing good work”, the time spent on trial fitting is VERY good time spent.

This trial fitting should include nearly every single part of the car.

When installing a weld on part such as a quarter, trial fitting ALL the adjacent panels is not just something you “should” do, you MUST do it. The decklid, door, rear bumper, window mouldings, etc, should ALL installed and fit well BEFORE your welding is done. At this time a little minor tuning can turn an “OK” job into an outstanding one. You may even find the need to serious adjustment.

Trial fitting is not holding the part up and saying “yep it fits”. We are talking FULLY bolting the part on. If this is a moving part such as a door or deck lid, the latch should be installed, hinges FULLY bolted on and adjusted. The rubber seals and bumpers should be installed as well. On an older car this is not so easy because many are glued in, but SOMETHING has to be done to insure the part will fit properly when the rubber is installed later.

If you can’t install the rubber at that time at least spend some time looking at where the rubber fits to for a proper gap. For instance, while fitting a decklid to your new quarter (or the other way around, it makes no difference) get in the trunk and close the lid. Inspect around the channel where the rubber fits. Be sure it is a uniform distance ALL the way around. You can usually find the correct distance right where the hinges are. If the panel fits correctly on the outside then that gap for the rubber is usually going to be correct. If you feel for some reason that there is damage to that area, you need to spend some time there. If you feel the car has been hit on the side piller post (if you were fitting the door) you really need insure that the door fits properly and that you KNOW what that rubber gap should be. This gap is usually a uniform distance all the way around, be sure of it. When you are doing a door, you always have the other side to check to guidance remember. When installing a quarter, rear panel, upper panel, this is very critical. You don’t want to find out later that your gap is too small, the lid won’t close properly or sticks up. You don’t want to find out the gap is too large, the rubber may not seal and the trunk leaks water. A little minor shifting of parts prior to welding could take care of it.
You want ALL gaps perfect PRIOR to welding (a little tack here or there may be needed for fitting the parts) there is NOTHING that will tell you this other than FULLY mounting the adjacent parts.

Mouldings:
When doing any plastic filler work (“bondo”) or straightening metal you need to trail fit the mouldings, trim and adjacent parts as well. This is VERY important with parts like fender extensions. I don’t care if they are new/used or the even the same ones you took off the car, AWAYS trial fit them. Don’t leave you new repro parts in the package to install them after paint, you WILL be sorry.

Prior to paint or even primer you can “tweek” these mouldings against the body. After paint, it is much harder because you can scratch it. If there is plastic filler work or metal being straightened this is VERY important. After you have drilled holes for mouldings (Basics of Basics-Templates) bolt the mouldings on for fit.

The cars weight should be on the “wheels” when making these panel adjustments. NEVER fit panels while the car is on jack stands on the frame or on a rotisserie for something like that. You can have the car on jack stands but be sure they are under the rear axle and front control arms to “replicate” the forces of the car on it’s wheels. I don’t even like the under the control arms at all, I put the car on it’s front wheels. The weight transfer is not the same in the middle of the control arms as it is at the point where the tire hits the ground.

I can not stress this enough, trial fitting parts is not because you are a newbe or something. Every experienced body man does it everyday to some degree. Trial fitting is done throughout the entire repair of the car. Nothing could be worse than getting your car back from the painter only to find parts don’t fit!
Just yesterday I was working on 2002 Honda CR-V with a little dent on the quarter right at the edge by the rear gate. I had finished the plastic filler work and was ready to send it to the paint department. I went ahead and installed the new decklid just to be sure it was right, even though this was a very minor repair that should easily be fine. I found out I was a little on the filler work. Now, it wasn’t the end of the world and could have even stayed that way. But with literally only a few minutes, it was perfect. On a very large job lately I found the need to pull the car back up on the frame rack for a little minor repair to where the rubber fits or the door would have been MUCH too tight. Just this little fine tuning made a world of difference to how the door fit.

The moral of the story is don’t ever “assume” your parts are going to fit. I don’t give a darn if they are new, repro, NOS, original, it really doesn’t matter, they MUST be trial fit.

The final assembly of your car should be fun, and relaxing. It is the best part of the whole project. Don’t make it a nightmare, don’t let someone rush you during the earlier phases of the project. Right from the very beginning you are laying the foundation for the finished project. Take the time to do it right.
If you trial fit the parts properly you will never know the pain you saved yourself, but believe me, it was time very well spent.

[Rude Dude]

Dan the 1960 to 63 look very close but slightly different do you think someone pulled a fast one on you?

[CountofMonteCarlo84]

Sorry to see that man. I know how you feel. The Altman bear claw style latches that everyone raves about have caused me nothing, but trouble.

[_Ogre]

that first paint chip can be tough; especially with zero miles on the truck
buy some touch up paint and move on

i go back to my painter once a year to have him do touch up
mostly rock chips, but my truk trunk moves so much...

[Dan in Pasadena]

Well guys, all the “trial fitting” advice is nice but years too late.

Why didn’t I do that earlier? The windows are the only non-original things going back in the original place. And frankly, when I took it apart, chrome window frames were the last thing on my mind. So, water under the bridge.

I bought new repops at The Truck Shop today ($$$) and compared them to what I have and though I have not yet tried to install them, I doubt the fit will be all that much better. IF that turns out to be true I’ll have to move the mounting tabs on the ones I already have or have someone more familiar with this do this.

One last iron-in-the-fire is I am attempting to find my originals that I gave away. It is a long shot, but trying.

Last, the paint will be sanded and reshot by the painter along with a rear fender he scratched and a tiny chip in the middle of my passenger door fixed because my lawn mower threw a pebble at it - UGH!

If I attempt this fix myself it’ll be a fiddly-jiggly job trying to position the wing assembly, side window AND accurately mark the revised locations for the mounting tabs all at the same time!