truck still not turning off - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

dinnut · 11-23-2003, 02:40 AM

today i went out and started the truck tightened down the motor mounts with some wrenches a friend brought over and drove it. got it up to about 60 on a small back road by my house and it runs great. truck still is not inspected and no insurance. then we pulled the the rear left wheel off to check the shoes and see how much was left. not very much. probably why my e-brake doesnt work. its the only wheel with a phillips head screw on the cover. rest have locks that i dont have the key to. and i started to play around with some of the ideas. I KNOW the truck needs a new wiring harness and that the wiring is horrible. someone mentioned that if the key is off the windshield wipers wont work. so i decided to try it. i turned it on turned the key off and turned the windshield wiper switch on. they dont come on but it kills the engine... truck only started to not turn off after i tuned it up. i think the hei is not wired properly

btw i have another background on the way

shuttermutt · 11-23-2003, 03:09 AM

HEI requires a 12-volt switched connection to the BATT side. Take a voltmeter and, with the key OFF, put the negative probe on a ground (the block will do) and the positive side on the terminal and make sure you get no juice. If you've got juice, you've got trouble.

While you're there, try the same test with the key ON (you don't have to start the engine). Make sure you're getting 12 volts and not less. The factory resistor wire feeds 9 volts or so to the points coil and that's a no-no for HEI.

dinnut · 11-23-2003, 03:39 AM

you mean put the positive side on the of the battery or the hei? just a little confused sorry

dinnut · 11-23-2003, 03:39 AM

you mean put the positive side on the of the battery or the hei? just a little confused sorry

A.P. · 11-23-2003, 08:21 AM

Check this out.

JimKshortstep4x4 · 11-23-2003, 11:54 AM

A.P.,

Great schematic!

Has that been put into F.A.Q. yet?

Should be!

JIm

shuttermutt · 11-23-2003, 12:46 PM

No doubt, that's a good diagram! Should help quite a few folks.

71GMC_3/4T · 11-23-2003, 01:16 PM

Dinnut,
When he says "Batt side" above, he is referring to the terminal on the distributor marked "BATT" (next to "TACH"). It says BATT, but it needs to be wired to a source that provides +12V only when the key is in the "ON" or "START" position.

The Diagram above is VERY NICE!

Longhorn Man · 11-23-2003, 01:55 PM

That pic is in the HEI thread on the FAQ along with a couple other pics.
Do you have an alevtric fan on there by chance? Sometimes they will produce enough power as they spin down to keep the engine running.
As for your wheel locks, take a 12 point socket that will only go 1/4 to 1/2 the way over the wheel lock and hammer it on all the way. Mine takes a 15/16 12 point. That should grip well enough to turn the lock lug off.
I lost my lug lock key about 2 years ago and have been doing this ever since. (I know the day i get rid of my locks, either the wheels will get stollen, or the key will show up...or both)

tom hand · 11-23-2003, 01:55 PM

OK I have run into this before....The problem is the way your alternator is wired. It is on the same circuit as your HEI, so that when you turn the key off, the HEI is still getting power from the alternator. The alternator and the HEI have to be wired where they are disconnected from each other when key is in the off position....try hooking up the HEI on a different place on the fuse box

dinnut · 11-23-2003, 08:59 PM

OH! THIS MAKES SENSE NOW. before i updated the hei i knew the alternator wasnt working because i took the negative cable off the battery and it died. after the tune up of the hei the alternator started to work. and probably now when i turn the key off the alternator is still providing the power. ok. i dont know how to fix this. should i just get a new engine wiring harness for hei?

FRENCHBLUE72 · 11-23-2003, 09:59 PM

If you know the alt don't work then replace it before moving onto other electrical item's concentrate on what's broke first then move to the next problem other wise you have a bunch of problem's that are not fixed....

dinnut · 11-23-2003, 10:04 PM

no. the alternator works now. it didnt before i tuned it up

jorgensensc · 11-23-2003, 10:59 PM

Alternators don't not work and then work. At least not with any reliability. I agree with FrenchBlue72.

**Warrens69GMC** · 11-24-2003, 12:08 AM

When we upgraded to a internally regulated alternator, the truck started to run on. A .59cent diode (radio shack) on the 12v switched side of the alternator solve the problem.
warrens69gmc

tom hand · 11-24-2003, 12:42 AM

Where is the HEI connected to get power?

dinnut · 11-24-2003, 01:54 AM

i dont know where the hei is connected to get power. ill have to trace the wire tomorrow. and yes. the alternator wouldnt work before i tuned it up and started working after i did. it makes NO SENSE at all. stupid question. how do i tell if i have a internally regulated alt and a ext. reg. alt.?

in the 2 following pics i kinda have pics of the hei setup as it was before.

pic of alternator. is it ext. reg. or int. reg? how can you tell?

what it looks like after the tuen up

dont know if any of these images help any

dinnut · 11-24-2003, 01:55 AM

2 you can kinda see the 1 wire in the back right of the picture

FRENCHBLUE72 · 11-24-2003, 09:31 AM

Dinnit what are the 2 ballast ristor's for?????That fuel line look's kinked ????

tom hand · 11-24-2003, 10:33 AM

During all that fancy wiring somebody did, they got the 12 volt switched to the alternator and the HEI where the ignition switch does not disconnect them....try unplugging the alternator and see if the truck will turn off...I sure this happened when they put the int. reg alternator on. When you uplug the alternator use a test lite and check the wires in the plug....one of the wires should be "hot" when the key is on...but it should be "dead" while in the start position...the wire going to the HEI should be "hot" while in the start position...when you get it like this it will work

dinnut · 11-24-2003, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tom hand
During all that fancy wiring somebody did, they got the 12 volt switched to the alternator and the HEI where the ignition switch does not disconnect them....try unplugging the alternator and see if the truck will turn off...I sure this happened when they put the int. reg alternator on. When you uplug the alternator use a test lite and check the wires in the plug....one of the wires should be "hot" when the key is on...but it should be "dead" while in the start position...the wire going to the HEI should be "hot" while in the start position...when you get it like this it will work

i have replaced that part of the fuel line. that is a picture from probably when i got the truck. are the ballast resistors the white things mounted on the firewall? i wondered about those myself and honestly i have no clue. fancy wiring is right

um where do switch the wires so that the alternator is not active in the off and start position? and how do i make the hei work only in the start and run position? or do i have to figure that out by looking at the "fancy" wiring. and figure it out for myself?

the wiring sure is "fancy"... ill have to get some more interior ones
btw: i figured out what the green wire was for. temp sender. this is just to show the funky wiring

tom hand · 11-24-2003, 04:12 PM

1.get a test light
2. Connect it to the wire going to the HEI...It should come on with the key on and stay lit during cranking.
3. Connect it to the terminal marked number 2 on the alternator...It should come on with the key and go out while cranking.
4. If eithier 2 or 3 don't work that way, use test light to find a place on the fuse box that will make it work that way.

Happy rewiring

dinnut · 11-24-2003, 06:19 PM

i went out there and looked arround and boy is it confusing. its all crazy. i did however fix my gas gauge. it wasnt working and i couldnt figure out why. i was looking at the fuse block and noticed nothing was at the fuel gauge terminal and noticed the wire sitting down below so i plugged it in and hooked the battery back up and the gas gauge went down to empty!!!!! HAPPY! but for with the hei i tried starting it, unplugging the alternator and turning the key off. it still ran for a couple seconds then died. it does that sometimes anyway. as far as i can trace the hei wire it goes thru the firewall goes in a circle and dissapears...? i cant really trace it. i think its taped to the fuse block....

this is kinda OT but what does the wiring above the gas pedal go/do. there is a wire hanging off of it thats blue.

TEXAS 68 · 11-24-2003, 07:25 PM

dinnut
It might help if you had a wiring diagram to go by for reference to look at and then follow what everyone suggestsIMO. looks like there has been a few wiring redos on your truck.

dinnut · 11-24-2003, 08:04 PM

my truck is insane. at least i know if im out of gas

11-23-2003, 02:40 AM	#1
dinnut Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: missouri city, tx Posts: 4,486	truck still not turning off today i went out and started the truck tightened down the motor mounts with some wrenches a friend brought over and drove it. got it up to about 60 on a small back road by my house and it runs great. truck still is not inspected and no insurance. then we pulled the the rear left wheel off to check the shoes and see how much was left. not very much. probably why my e-brake doesnt work. its the only wheel with a phillips head screw on the cover. rest have locks that i dont have the key to. and i started to play around with some of the ideas. I KNOW the truck needs a new wiring harness and that the wiring is horrible. someone mentioned that if the key is off the windshield wipers wont work. so i decided to try it. i turned it on turned the key off and turned the windshield wiper switch on. they dont come on but it kills the engine... truck only started to not turn off after i tuned it up. i think the hei is not wired properly btw i have another background on the way __________________ 70 longbed 496/th400/Ford 9"

11-23-2003, 03:09 AM	#2
shuttermutt Don't say "Oops!", Doctor Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 677	HEI requires a 12-volt switched connection to the BATT side. Take a voltmeter and, with the key OFF, put the negative probe on a ground (the block will do) and the positive side on the terminal and make sure you get no juice. If you've got juice, you've got trouble. While you're there, try the same test with the key ON (you don't have to start the engine). Make sure you're getting 12 volts and not less. The factory resistor wire feeds 9 volts or so to the points coil and that's a no-no for HEI. __________________ 'Mutt 1968 CST LWB: R.I.P. 1967 Chevelle: TPI 454 beast 1967 C10 SWB: Claimed when Bumpster didn't put it on his list

11-23-2003, 03:39 AM	#3
dinnut Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: missouri city, tx Posts: 4,486	you mean put the positive side on the of the battery or the hei? just a little confused sorry __________________ 70 longbed 496/th400/Ford 9"

11-23-2003, 03:39 AM	#4
dinnut Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: missouri city, tx Posts: 4,486	you mean put the positive side on the of the battery or the hei? just a little confused sorry __________________ 70 longbed 496/th400/Ford 9"

11-23-2003, 08:21 AM	#5
A.P. Black 72 Chevy Join Date: May 2002 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 662	Check this out. Attached Images

11-23-2003, 11:54 AM	#6
JimKshortstep4x4 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Muskegon,MI,USA Posts: 6,026	A.P., Great schematic! Has that been put into F.A.Q. yet? Should be! JIm

11-23-2003, 12:46 PM	#7
shuttermutt Don't say "Oops!", Doctor Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 677	No doubt, that's a good diagram! Should help quite a few folks. __________________ 'Mutt 1968 CST LWB: R.I.P. 1967 Chevelle: TPI 454 beast 1967 C10 SWB: Claimed when Bumpster didn't put it on his list

11-23-2003, 01:16 PM	#8
71GMC_3/4T Weapons Of Construction Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 1,095	Dinnut, When he says "Batt side" above, he is referring to the terminal on the distributor marked "BATT" (next to "TACH"). It says BATT, but it needs to be wired to a source that provides +12V only when the key is in the "ON" or "START" position. The Diagram above is VERY NICE! __________________ 1971 GMC 2500, 402/TH400 4.10 Daily Driver Lafayette, CO

11-23-2003, 01:55 PM	#9
Longhorn Man its all about the +6 inches Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Hilliard Ohio Posts: 2,690	That pic is in the HEI thread on the FAQ along with a couple other pics. Do you have an alevtric fan on there by chance? Sometimes they will produce enough power as they spin down to keep the engine running. As for your wheel locks, take a 12 point socket that will only go 1/4 to 1/2 the way over the wheel lock and hammer it on all the way. Mine takes a 15/16 12 point. That should grip well enough to turn the lock lug off. I lost my lug lock key about 2 years ago and have been doing this ever since. (I know the day i get rid of my locks, either the wheels will get stollen, or the key will show up...or both)

11-23-2003, 01:55 PM	#10
tom hand CCRider Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Olive Branch,MS,USA Posts: 2,232	OK I have run into this before....The problem is the way your alternator is wired. It is on the same circuit as your HEI, so that when you turn the key off, the HEI is still getting power from the alternator. The alternator and the HEI have to be wired where they are disconnected from each other when key is in the off position....try hooking up the HEI on a different place on the fuse box __________________ 72 GMC Sierra SWB almost finished---- 84 Softail Olive Branch MS

11-23-2003, 08:59 PM	#11
dinnut Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: missouri city, tx Posts: 4,486	OH! THIS MAKES SENSE NOW. before i updated the hei i knew the alternator wasnt working because i took the negative cable off the battery and it died. after the tune up of the hei the alternator started to work. and probably now when i turn the key off the alternator is still providing the power. ok. i dont know how to fix this. should i just get a new engine wiring harness for hei? __________________ 70 longbed 496/th400/Ford 9"

11-23-2003, 09:59 PM	#12
FRENCHBLUE72 PROJECT 7DEUCE Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: GRANTS PASS OR Posts: 21,606	If you know the alt don't work then replace it before moving onto other electrical item's concentrate on what's broke first then move to the next problem other wise you have a bunch of problem's that are not fixed.... __________________ GO BIG GREEN GO DUCKS MEMBER #6377 72 k-5 daily driver 6'' lift 35'' 350-350-205 slowly getting rust free. Project "7DEUCE" check out my build http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=267665 Tim Powell..R.I.P EastSideLowlife..... R.I.P..

11-23-2003, 10:04 PM	#13
dinnut Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: missouri city, tx Posts: 4,486	no. the alternator works now. it didnt before i tuned it up __________________ 70 longbed 496/th400/Ford 9"

11-23-2003, 10:59 PM	#14
jorgensensc Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cypress, Tx Posts: 4,005	Alternators don't not work and then work. At least not with any reliability. I agree with FrenchBlue72. __________________ 1972 C20 Suburban- Big Blue Betty '56 Chevy Bel Air Sedan- Frame up Restoration -What would you attempt to achieve if you knew you could not fail?- -I Refuse To Tiptoe Through Life, Only To Arrive Safely At Death's Door- R.I.P. EAST SIDE LOW LIFE

11-24-2003, 12:08 AM	#15
Warrens69GMC Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Safford,AZ Posts: 3,626	hei running When we upgraded to a internally regulated alternator, the truck started to run on. A .59cent diode (radio shack) on the 12v switched side of the alternator solve the problem. warrens69gmc



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11-24-2003, 12:42 AM	#16
tom hand CCRider Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Olive Branch,MS,USA Posts: 2,232	Where is the HEI connected to get power? __________________ 72 GMC Sierra SWB almost finished---- 84 Softail Olive Branch MS

11-24-2003, 01:54 AM	#17
dinnut Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: missouri city, tx Posts: 4,486	i dont know where the hei is connected to get power. ill have to trace the wire tomorrow. and yes. the alternator wouldnt work before i tuned it up and started working after i did. it makes NO SENSE at all. stupid question. how do i tell if i have a internally regulated alt and a ext. reg. alt.? in the 2 following pics i kinda have pics of the hei setup as it was before. pic of alternator. is it ext. reg. or int. reg? how can you tell? what it looks like after the tuen up dont know if any of these images help any __________________ 70 longbed 496/th400/Ford 9" Last edited by dinnut; 11-24-2003 at 02:11 AM.

11-24-2003, 01:55 AM	#18
dinnut Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: missouri city, tx Posts: 4,486	2 you can kinda see the 1 wire in the back right of the picture Attached Images __________________ 70 longbed 496/th400/Ford 9" Last edited by dinnut; 11-24-2003 at 02:10 AM.

11-24-2003, 09:31 AM	#19
FRENCHBLUE72 PROJECT 7DEUCE Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: GRANTS PASS OR Posts: 21,606	Dinnit what are the 2 ballast ristor's for?????That fuel line look's kinked ???? __________________ GO BIG GREEN GO DUCKS MEMBER #6377 72 k-5 daily driver 6'' lift 35'' 350-350-205 slowly getting rust free. Project "7DEUCE" check out my build http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=267665 Tim Powell..R.I.P EastSideLowlife..... R.I.P..

11-24-2003, 10:33 AM	#20
tom hand CCRider Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Olive Branch,MS,USA Posts: 2,232	During all that fancy wiring somebody did, they got the 12 volt switched to the alternator and the HEI where the ignition switch does not disconnect them....try unplugging the alternator and see if the truck will turn off...I sure this happened when they put the int. reg alternator on. When you uplug the alternator use a test lite and check the wires in the plug....one of the wires should be "hot" when the key is on...but it should be "dead" while in the start position...the wire going to the HEI should be "hot" while in the start position...when you get it like this it will work __________________ 72 GMC Sierra SWB almost finished---- 84 Softail Olive Branch MS Last edited by tom hand; 11-24-2003 at 10:40 AM.

11-24-2003, 04:12 PM	#22
tom hand CCRider Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Olive Branch,MS,USA Posts: 2,232	1.get a test light 2. Connect it to the wire going to the HEI...It should come on with the key on and stay lit during cranking. 3. Connect it to the terminal marked number 2 on the alternator...It should come on with the key and go out while cranking. 4. If eithier 2 or 3 don't work that way, use test light to find a place on the fuse box that will make it work that way. Happy rewiring __________________ 72 GMC Sierra SWB almost finished---- 84 Softail Olive Branch MS

11-24-2003, 06:19 PM	#23
dinnut Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: missouri city, tx Posts: 4,486	i went out there and looked arround and boy is it confusing. its all crazy. i did however fix my gas gauge. it wasnt working and i couldnt figure out why. i was looking at the fuse block and noticed nothing was at the fuel gauge terminal and noticed the wire sitting down below so i plugged it in and hooked the battery back up and the gas gauge went down to empty!!!!! HAPPY! but for with the hei i tried starting it, unplugging the alternator and turning the key off. it still ran for a couple seconds then died. it does that sometimes anyway. as far as i can trace the hei wire it goes thru the firewall goes in a circle and dissapears...? i cant really trace it. i think its taped to the fuse block.... this is kinda OT but what does the wiring above the gas pedal go/do. there is a wire hanging off of it thats blue. __________________ 70 longbed 496/th400/Ford 9"

11-24-2003, 07:25 PM	#24
TEXAS 68 Vortec in the works Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Spring,Texas Posts: 735	dinnut It might help if you had a wiring diagram to go by for reference to look at and then follow what everyone suggestsIMO. looks like there has been a few wiring redos on your truck. __________________ 68? It's all figured out untill you get it apart. Is it Sunday yet??? 68 Project 68 SWB frame off/98 Vortec with stock FI/power everything. 95 ECLB 2500 with 346,000 on the clock(the original HD) 99 Lesabre-wifes ride 08 Crew Cab LTZ-All Mine 89 SWB 5/7 drop-Son's first ride.

11-24-2003, 08:04 PM	#25
dinnut Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: missouri city, tx Posts: 4,486	my truck is insane. at least i know if im out of gas __________________ 70 longbed 496/th400/Ford 9"

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