Anyone used a CD009 instead of a T56?

[Paul Y]

I really want a T56 for Woody, truth be told I really want a T56 Magnum but having just priced up a new set up including bellhousing clutch etc the $6K plus buy in it is not going to happen. Which is a shame.

So started looking around at alternatives and the CD009 6 speed out of a 350z is a popular option, plus available at a much lower point of entry.

Question is, has anybody used one in a C10? There are other options but, as the 350z is/was sold in the UK getting a box is going to be easier and cheaper than some of the other options.

So, who has gone this route or does anybody want to be my secret Santa and come up with a deal on a T56?!?!

Thanks in advance.

P.

[The Rocknrod]

The shiftier position I would think might hinder it's use on a C10?

[Blue666(2)]

Kind of high priced adapter, but looks do able.

http://collinsadapters.com/index.php...ter-plate.html

[Paul Y]

Thanks for the reply’s gentlemen.

Mr. Rod, yes the shifter location is not ideal but thinking is to make up an extension/relocation as per the 4x4 guys on early Broncos etc to move it to a more acceptable position.

Mr. Blue, there are a number of kits available some that require the removal of the belhousing like the Collins and others that use an adapter at the bellhousing. As for price... it would be cheaper but I am more worried about the gear ratios and how the truck will drive.

If anybody else has any thoughts would appreciate you chipping in.

Keep safe people.

P.

[theastronaut]

Have you looked into a Colorado AR5 with an adapter from Fabbot? I just sold my T56 for $2,000; I can do a complete AR5 swap for around $1200, and if I ever blow it up its only $2-300 to swap in another trans.

https://www.fabbotfab.com/collection...ssion-adapters

[Clyde65]

Originally Posted by theastronaut

Have you looked into a Colorado AR5 with an adapter from Fabbot? I just sold my T56 for $2,000; I can do a complete AR5 swap for around $1200, and if I ever blow it up its only $2-300 to swap in another trans.

https://www.fabbotfab.com/collection...ssion-adapters

That trans is only rated at 260 lbft of torque tho
Posted via Mobile Device

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by Clyde65

That trans is only rated at 260 lbft of torque tho
Posted via Mobile Device

True but they are know to hold much more than that.

One guy broke third gear in his but that was in a truck making 700whp (so 800+ going through the trans), and said the truck had problems with wheel hop, and he was no-lift shifting. Same guy has made 882 hp at the wheels and the trans lived through all the dyno runs and a 2300 mile road trip. They'll hold up to a ton of power and some abuse, probably more than 95% of people with a C10 will ever make. T56's have failed at lower power levels, I had a friend who broke one in a stock LT1 Camaro SS.

[jayoldschool]

I LOVE my T56 that I put in my Impala SS. It was used, out of a Trans Am. It's just the perfect street trans. 1-4: old school four speed. 5th: great around town OD. 6th: deep 0.5 OD for the highway. I run 4.10 gears with it.

At the end of the day... if you're only going to save a few hundred... go T56. Don't feel you need a brand new one. Buy used, and go through it yourself if you have to. The complete service manual is easily found. I didn't bother doing anything to mine, and it's been in there for over 15 years.

Also, regarding power handling... the T56 is much stronger. The stock LT1 T56 is 450ft-lbs rating (94-up). The 93 is still higher than the AR5 by almost 100ft-lbs.

[theastronaut]

The "rating" on the AR5 isn't really correct. It's the same basic trans that came in 90's Supras and those cars with mods make a lot of power. Check out the "Sloppy Mechanics Public Page" on facebook and search "AR5", there are people putting a lot of power through them. It also clears the floor easier than a T56 and and the shifter is in a better location than a F-body T56.

[MusicMan70]

I had posted this over on the 67-72 forum. Here is some info I started to collect on the Aisin AR5

Looks to be a pretty nice alternative.
Here are some links and information I was able to pull up.
I did read/watch them all and they are valid at time of posting, but I've not done this swap. I'm just sharing what I found.




General Motors used the AR-5 as RPO MA5.

Gear ratios:
1st-3.75, 2nd- 2.26, 3rd- 1.37, 4th-1.00, 5th- .73, Rev- 3.67


https://www.fabbotfab.com/collection...ssion-adapters

https://youtu.be/O1tsFmjqRUo


The AR-5 is a 5-speed manual transmission manufactured by Aisin. It is designed for longitudinal engine applications and can handle up to 225 ft•lbf (305 N•m) of torque.
Transmissions are rated according to application, not capability. That just means that the highest rated car with an AR5 thus far produced 225 ft-lbs of torque

the box was officially rated at "260 ft/lbs" but the Toyota Supra and Lexus IS300 community has proven that that isn't exactly true.
Supposedly it lives up to about 600 ft/lbs so long as you don't abuse it. It was also the transmission used in the Mallet LS2 powered Solstices.
It's an upgraded Supra R154 box with double synchros on 1/2/3



Here’s a great link with info and photo’s as well.
http://www.montecarloss.com/communit...77&type=thread


YOUTUBE Transmission in a Nova
Part 1- https://youtu.be/MkVUT62E8S0

Part 2 - https://youtu.be/S02-X1bQMMo

And just FYI, Matt from FabBot just dyno'd his setup with the AR5 and pulled 882hp / 784tq at the rear wheels so the AR5 is one tough transmission



According to Rockland Standard Gear the strength of a manual transmission is defined by the centerline distance between the mainshaft and the cluster gear shaft, as well as the spline and diameter of the input and output shafts.

For reference the AR5 has an 82mm centerline distance, a 26 spline input shaft and a 27 spline output and the input shaft bearing is capable of handling a 510 newton meters.

The TKO600 has an 83mm centerline distance, a 26 spline input shaft and a 31 spline output shaft

The F-body 98-02 T-56 has an 85mm centerline distance, a 26 spline input shaft and a 27 spline output shaft

General Motors used the AR-5 as RPO MA5.

[mike's1965]

I have thought about getting a T56 magnum for my truck, factory powerglide automatic currently TH400, but the thought of how high the clutch pedal looks from pictures of manual transmission trucks, that looks uncomfortable.

My right leg having to pull leg up to reach brake pedal is ok, but doing that with left leg, no thanks.

I have a T56 in my 1999 Corvette, made sure to get a manual transmission, with the .50 overdrive in 6th gear and 3.42 rear gears, it can cruise at very low rpm at high speed, been a long time but it can cruise at 100 mph at around 2000 rpm or so, but usually go slower to avoid tickets or worse.

Might just leave my truck as is with the 396 and TH400, 3.73 rear gears, as it's not needed as a daily driver, have the Corvette as a fun car and the PT Cruiser as daily driver.

Was thinking 700R4 but those are not cheap either if you buy one as a kit and rebuilt.

Is this truck a daily driver or a fun vehicle?

Sorry don't know about the other transmission, did a quick look and it seemed to not have much overdrive, seemed like slightly less overdrive than a 700-R4 automatic.

0.794 6th gear ratio on 350z trans, also first gear is very deep 3.794, who knows might work good, is this truck 6 or V8?

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by mike's1965

I have a T56 in my 1999 Corvette, made sure to get a manual transmission, with the .50 overdrive in 6th gear and 3.42 rear gears, it can cruise at very low rpm at high speed, been a long time but it can cruise at 100 mph at around 2000 rpm or so, but usually go slower to avoid tickets or worse.

Those ratios won’t work in a truck that has a lot taller tire, and a lot worse wind resistance than a C5 Corvette. If I remember correctly, a 29” tall tire and 4.56 gears puts you at 2,000 rpm at 75 mph with a T56. Have to get the rpm up enough to make enough torque to overcome the added wind resistance and taller tires.

[chev-obsession]

To answer the OP’s question.... I I have no experience with the CD009. I looked into it, you will be just slightly under or right at the same amount financially as if you went with a t56. Good luck finding either one of those used in good shape for less than $2,000.

I was skeptical at first but researched a ton and found ls swapped Pontiac solstice, Saturn sky, Chevy Colorado’s running the AR5 at 600+ Hp and they were lasting. Their problem is 3rd gear. No the trans wasn’t meant to drag race but they’ve been proven to hold up and a less expensive alternative. I have one in my 69 and will tell you how I like it here in a few days

[mike's1965]

Originally Posted by theastronaut

Those ratios won’t work in a truck that has a lot taller tire, and a lot worse wind resistance than a C5 Corvette. If I remember correctly, a 29” tall tire and 4.56 gears puts you at 2,000 rpm at 75 mph with a T56. Have to get the rpm up enough to make enough torque to overcome the added wind resistance and taller tires.

I meant to say .50 6th gear is probably too much for a truck, last year I called American Power train and the person says the T56 magnum with the .50 ratio is being phased out because 6th is not usable in a lot of Classic vehicle swaps.

Also have considered the TKO600, a 5 speed, I think it has .63 5th gear ratio.

I think those go for $2600.00 however you might be able to use your bellhousing and other stuff, not sure if you can use mechanical clutch stuff with it.

Rated for 600 ft lbs of torque. I have read these can only be shifted at 5000 rpm max or a little more, which seems plenty high for me, T56 magnum can go much more, which seems like you would blow your engine unless it's some race engine.

Also they don't shift as smooth as T56 magnum from what I read.

Not long ago I saw a 1989 Camaro IROC-Z at pull n save with a 5 speed manual, I thought about grabbing it and put in the 1965 C10, sat in car grabbed handle, the shifter felt very loose going through the gears compared to the shifter in my Corvette, not sure if it's just the way the 2 cars are, or the Camaro was just very worn out.

Check out TKO600, seems like a good choice and strong.

[AcampoDave]

I kept it simple with a Muncie M22Z. No overdrive, but you can run 3.08's with no troubles and cruise along at 60 to 65 MPH at around 2400 RPM. Here's a thread about it. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=730917

[theastronaut]

We put a TKO600 in a Chevelle a few years back, and the ratios were nice but the shift quality wasn't the greatest. The owner ordered a kit with clutch/bellhousing/etc- everything needed to get it in the car, which cost about the same as a LS2/T56 takeout...

[Paul Y]

Gentlemen,

Appreciate the reply’s and apologise for my tardiness in responding.

If I don’t go T56 it will be a cd009 as they are available in the uk, the AR5 is not something you will find on these shores.

I can either get a T56 with a bell housing, clutch etc for around $2-2500 or The cd009 which is going to cost slightly less. A new magnum t56 is just not financially viable.

The tko is not a trans I like as it shifts terribly, well from the two I have driven plus the LSis going to be turning 6800 at its red line so outside the design parameters.

The truck is an ice cream and burnouts build so is going to see some abuse....

If anyone has a t56 let me know!!

Thanks again.

P.

[Paul Y]

The dangers of 'working from home' and spending multiple hours on team and client calls is there are sections of time when your attention can slip.

Thats how I ended up with Woody and has now drawn me to an advert for a TR6060. Now from what I can understand this is better than a T56 but not as good as a Magnum.

For the price it seems as if it is a good alternative to the CD009 - still a little more than I would want to spend but...

Anybody with experience with this flavour of transmission?

P.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by Paul Y

The dangers of 'working from home' and spending multiple hours on team and client calls is there are sections of time when your attention can slip.

Thats how I ended up with Woody and has now drawn me to an advert for a TR6060. Now from what I can understand this is better than a T56 but not as good as a Magnum.

For the price it seems as if it is a good alternative to the CD009 - still a little more than I would want to spend but...

Anybody with experience with this flavour of transmission?

P.

I recall reading the 6060 was basically a T56 used in new/late-model performance cars (most have manufacturer specific integrated bell housings & mfr specific clutch actuation placement w/single shift position placement; gear ratios spec'd according to the vehicle mfr it came from) where the Magnum was more for retrofit app's (multiple bell housing options including SFI apps; multiple shifter placement options; wide/close ratio gearing options).

I don't recall specifically what differences (if much) there are internally. 6060's definitely have the super tall OD gears (that late models cars utilize for low highway rpms to increase mpg's. The Magnums have the better OD ratios for retrofits/trucks so that 6th is actually usable

[Paul Y]

Hi Scotti,

Trying to decipher the numerous codes for the tr6060 has made me nearly lose the will to live as their is a huge amount of conflicting evidence.

Would seem that the box fitted to the ZL1 and CTS-V has the .08 and .63 5th and 6th which makes them a good fit for our trucks as I agree the .5 6th gear is only useful if you are at Bonneville....

At some point I will have to make a decision but until then thank yo for your input.

P.

[jayoldschool]

.5 6th is very useful if you rear gear correctly. 4.10s or 4.56s!

[slammed57]

I went with a t56 magnum this time around, havent used it yet , yes it is expensive but this truck I will be keeping for a long while, when we did the calculations with 4:10 gears 29 in tire, would put the RPMs around 1800 at 70 MPH. I believe there is a thread that shows you how to move the shifter forward with a t56 taken out of a donor

[Paul Y]

Mr Slammed,

Are you running the .50 or the .63 6th gear?

Truck already has 4.11's that are in good shape so will stick with them.

P.

[SCOTI]

4.11's + 29"OD + .63 final drive @ 70mpg = ~2100rpm

4.11's + 29"OD + .50 final drive @ 70mph = ~1700rpm

4.56's + 29"OD + .50 final drive @ 70mph = ~1850rpm

1700rpm is useable on a lighter vehicle w/good aero.... Not so much on the large frontal area C10's have. 1850rpm is still most likely to be too low unless the motor is big enough & cammed right to have the right torque curve.

These trans in an older retrofit 'classic' should probably target a 2,000rpm minimum for 6th gear so the .63 from the aftermarket Magnums is a better option. Obviously one could go higher on gearing (4.88's) but then you have to consider how that impacts the 1-4 gearing when not on a highway.

[jayoldschool]

Don't forget the 1993 F body T56 actually has a .62 6th gear! There are actually two different versions, one with 3.36 1st, and the other with 2.97 1st. 2.73 rear gaer cars got the former, 3.23 cars got the latter.