47-55.1 Mustang II alignment issues

[Jemezcrusher]

I got a little chapped the other day. Took the 50 to the alignment shop. Has not had anything done so I had no idea where it was. They put it on the rack and got it all set and when they were done presented my the bill of 131 dollars but said there were no jam nuts on the tie rod ends. I asked why they did not pop them off and put nuts on them and the guy (owner) said they was not part of the alignment. He noted that on the paperwork that the castor could not be equaled due to the a arm running into the cross member on the pass side. His remarks were to repair and bring it back.

I asked if i got any kind of discount on the return visit and he said no. The springs have not yet seated on the bottoms so I imagine that will change the settings when I drive it a bit and they settle in.

I said I could mark the ends (paint on the threads and count the turns to get them off while holding the adjusters, then put the jam nuts on and reverse the procedure. I think the toe would be close enough for me to put some miles on without tearing up my tires. Then I could get it back to another shop (not going to go 70 miles to someone that does not even offer to pop these off and put nuts on even for a fee) to get it set after everything settles in

The owner at the shop said I would not even be able to get it close

Any thoughts?

[Rickysnickers]

My only thought is that the jam nuts would be considered, at least in my opinion, a safety issue. Any decent place should have put them on if they were missing. However, playing devil's advocate, did you or the installer forget to put them on?

I didn't pay that much when I got mine aligned. I think it was about $60 or so.

[joedoh]

definitely sounds like an "I dont like you" tax added on there. I have had alignment guys flat refuse to do some trucks because the wheel is tucked up in the fender a little, they cant get their little flags/reflectors on the top of the tire. they have offered to do "rear only", like I dont know the impossibility of any alignment adjustment to a solid rear axle with leafs

are you at your ride height? or do you plan to lower it? if you lower it your arm hitting may fix itself as the arm goes up.

I havent done a MII but ford kept roughly the same geometry on the ranger IFS starting around 2002, and I have worked on those doing bags and other lowering suspension. MII (and ranger) spindles are short and so are the upper arms (comparatively) so you have to be within 1-2" of your ride height when you align it or you will just need to align it again when you set your final ride height. its because of the short spindle and short upper arm, it changes camber a lot out of the sweet spot. the lower arms are much longer and stay pretty stable in their arc, but the short upper starts to pull camber pretty quickly.

the solution for a lowered ranger IFS with too much camber is to raise the upper arm mount an inch or so, it lets the upper be at a better angle in relation to the lower.

[jweb]

I had a similar problem with my MII set up. When I did the LS swap I also added power steering.
Since they recommend more caster with power steering I took mine in for alignment. I have an older style MII where the A arms are next to the frame. With the arms all the way in I still couldn't get the recommended 5 degrees, so I had to get these adjustable upper arms https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...del/mustang-ii

I was charged $79 the first time and only $40 when I took it back. Sounds like you need to find a different shop. Problem is, there are only a few shops out there that even want to work on older cars.

[dsraven]

sounds like you need a new alignment shop. they shouldn't have let it go with no jam nuts due to safety concerns. a quick phone call is all it would have taken to get your yes or no verdict on the extra charge, if there would be any. just my opinion.
you could get the jam nuts, place them next to the tie rod connection and then place tape or paint on the treads there at the end of the jam nut. that way you know where the nut needs to stop being screwed on and not rely on counting the turns only. do that too but also mark the end point of the jam nut where it will not be screwed on any further.
to get a relatively close toe in, jack it up so the front wheels are just off the ground and place stands under the lower control arms so the weight of the unit is back on the springs. bounce the thing a few times to swt the suspension some if possible. spin the tires and rub off any dirt etc from the treads with a big rag or whatever. take a block of wood and hammer a sharp nail right through it so the nail sticks out the other side. use this, held against a solid mount, to mark a spot all the way around the tire in a single spot on the tread on both sides. your treads should now have a ring marked around their circumference. be careful not to let the steering turn when doing this. now you can use a tape measure to get a dimension between these spots, side to side, and when you are done installing the jam nuts the dimension should be the same. do one side at a time and redo the dimension check to ensure the steering stays centered when you are done.
here is a couple of quick pics to see what I am talking about. this should get you through until you can get it in for alignment after allowing the springs to set.
do you have a pic of your front end assembled that shows the problem area?

http://www.beeline-co.com/products/manual-alignment

https://www.homemadetools.net/homemade-toe-in-gauge

[dsraven]

the adjustable arms are ok but the alignment guy will not love you after. there is a lot of disassemble, adjust, reassemble, check, redo if not within spec. it may get you within spec though rather than "close enough"

[mr48chev]

Mark the tie rods and count the turns and turn them back on the exact same number of turns after putting on the Jamb nuts.

When I was doing front end work daily I used to get a fair amount of business from guys with modified cars that other shops refused to do.

I had to take my 48 into an alignment shop to have it done when I didn't have access to equipment to do it and it had the Camaro subframe and they charged me a "truck surcharge" of about 15 bucks because it was a truck. They did a good job though as I could drive hands off on the freeway east of Boise for almost a mile without it shifting out of it's lane.

You can check toe in yourself pretty well as accurately as any machine by jacking each tire off the shop floor and scribing a line around the center of the tread with a pencil while slowly spinning the tire, I had a block that I kept at the front end rack to rest my hand on to keep it steady so the line didn't wiggle. Then you set the truck down on the shop floor bounce the suspension to settle it out and have a helper hold the end of the tape to the line on the back of one tire while you measure the other one and then go to the front side and repeat and figure the difference. I've done that on hundreds of cars over the years and it is what the Coopers did on my truck when they did the alignment I mentioned earlier.

The lay two boards beside the tires and measure isn't accurate as there is sidewall flex and the chance of tire runout. A lot of armatures always seem to suggest that but it isn't accurate enough to be viable.

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

You can check toe in yourself pretty well as accurately as any machine by jacking each tire off the shop floor and scribing a line around the center of the tread with a pencil while slowly spinning the tire...

The lay two boards beside the tires and measure isn't accurate as there is sidewall flex and the chance of tire runout. A lot of armatures always seem to suggest that but it isn't accurate enough to be viable.

yes, you can get pretty good at "driveway alignments" with some practice.

if my wife is around we measure from tread block to tread block. if she isnt around I will use two straightedges lifted up with some rattle can lids to clear the sidewall bulge at the bottom of the tire. I usually set up for slight toe in, like 1/8 or so, because road forces on the bushings usually push it to less than that

[dsraven]

sometimes I shoot a little paint on the tire before I scribe the line with the nail. helps to see the line. some guys will also use tape instead. paint wears off pretty quick though. also, be careful with the tape measure so you hold the end the same each time. most tapes have a loose end that could allow 1/8" discrepancies just from the way the end is held, whether pushed in or pulled out against the rivets that hold the L shaped end on the tape.

[Jemezcrusher]

I sprayed a little paint on the threads, put vice grips so the adjuster rods would not move, and counted the turns while taking off the ends. Installed the jam nuts and put the ends back on. Tightened the jam nuts while holding the vice grips and put it all back together.

Took it for the maiden voyage and it drove great!. Goes straight down the road and keeps a straight line while braking. I will have to talk to another shop and see what the risk is in running the castor 3 degrees short on one side VS the other to determine if worth taking it apart and doing some modifications. Still need to drive it more and look for some bumps to get the springs to seat all the way. I guess it is not unusual for these MII springs to take a few miles (even 100 or so) to drop into the lower support. Then will take to another shop to realign

[jweb]

The first time my truck was aligned after adding power steering they got it to about 3 degrees. It seemed okay except at freeway speeds. It was really twitchy and uncomfortable, now at 5 degrees it's very comfortable.

May not be a big deal if you don't do a lot of freeway driving.

[mr48chev]

They should have set the caster the same on both sides no matter where it was set. If they only got 1 degree on one side both sides should have been one degree and so on and so forth.

Some guys offset caster to compensate for the crown on the road but I always offset the camber starting with 1/4 degee more positive camber in the drivers side wheel than the passenger side. That is US drivers side on US roads.


If it drives great and doesn't eat tires life is good and I wouldn't get too excited for now.

[Jemezcrusher]

Originally Posted by jweb

The first time my truck was aligned after adding power steering they got it to about 3 degrees. It seemed okay except at freeway speeds. It was really twitchy and uncomfortable, now at 5 degrees it's very comfortable.

May not be a big deal if you don't do a lot of freeway driving.

Got it into 5th gear yesterday and it did seem a bit darty. It was pretty windy so not really sure if alignment or what.

Will just have to keep working it