47-55.1 Hazard light wiring dilemma

[TX3100Guy]

I suspect the answer to this question is that there is no answer, but I have found this forum full of talented and knowledgeable individuals, so I thought I would take a chance.

For quick background, I am installing a new American Autowire "classic upgrade" wiring harness and an Ididit steering column. Both the column and the harness have the capability to support a Hazard light option. There is a knob on the column to turn on the hazards, and the wiring harness supports this. I'm also installing a new electronic speedometer that has a dash light to show when the hazard lights are illuminated. However, there is no dedicated wire in the harness to connect to this feature of the speedo.

I reached out to Autowire and they confirmed that there is no dedicated wire for a hazard light indication on the dash and that "the brown wire" on the harness that connects to the steering column is always hot and if I were to splice into this wire, the dash light would be light constantly. I suspect this means that the switch on the column must introduce a ground circuit to turn on the hazards.

My question is to any knowledgeable electricians in the group, is there any other way I could get an indication of the hazards on with this setup?

[duramax55]

i can tell you one way to get it to flash in the dash but it's not the best way and maybe someone else will have the right way. Ok so if you tap in to one of the signal light right or left lets say left your light will flash when turning left but won't when turning right. It will also come on with the 4 way as the signal light uses the same wire. it will also come on when brakes are applied. Not really what you want but that's all i can come up with

[TX3100Guy]

Originally Posted by duramax55

i can tell you one way to get it to flash in the dash but it's not the best way and maybe someone else will have the right way. Ok so if you tap in to one of the signal light right or left lets say left your light will flash when turning left but won't when turning right. It will also come on with the 4 way as the signal light uses the same wire. it will also come on when brakes are applied. Not really what you want but that's all i can come up with

I thought about something like that, but the speedo and tach have indicator lights for right and left hand turns already. Another flashing light would drive me nuts. Thanks for trying..

[mr48chev]

I don't believe that you can get there from here without alot of hassle.

The Brown wire going into the turn signal switch is the 4 way flasher wire from the flasher but if you tie into it the light will flash all the time. You have to connect to the switched side of the turn signal switch to have it work right and without going out and pulling a switch out of a mid 70's column if I still have one out there that I can take apart I don't think that there is a simple way to tie into it. That light is just useless decoraton as it it sits.
The only way it can work otherwise is to have a totally separate hazzard light system that is not connected to the turnsignal and brake lights at all. In truth both turn signal lights in the dash/speedometer should flash when the 4 ways are on any how as each should be hooked to a front turn signal

I dug out the wiring diagram from the instructions and it isn't all that exciting even though it is pretty simple to follow.

The second image is a77 Camaro Turn signal Asyou can see there is no real way to connnect to it to get a wire for the 4 ways.

[TX3100Guy]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

I don't believe that you can get there from here without alot of hassle.

The Brown wire going into the turn signal switch is the 4 way flasher wire from the flasher but if you tie into it the light will flash all the time. You have to connect to the switched side of the turn signal switch to have it work right and without going out and pulling a switch out of a mid 70's column if I still have one out there that I can take apart I don't think that there is a simple way to tie into it. That light is just useless decoration as it it sits.
The only way it can work otherwise is to have a totally separate hazard light system that is not connected to the turn signal and brake lights at all. In truth both turn signal lights in the dash/speedometer should flash when the 4 ways are on any how as each should be hooked to a front turn signal

I dug out the wiring diagram from the instructions and it isn't all that exciting even though it is pretty simple to follow.

The second image is a77 Camaro Turn signal As you can see there is no real way to connect to it to get a wire for the 4 ways.

I appreciate all the work and explanation. I was thinking last night that both turn signals will be flashing in the speedo/tach and that will ave to be good enough. The last thing I want to do is tear apart a new steering column and wiring harness for a light that will hopefully only get occasional use.

Again, thanks for looking into this.

[dsraven]

turn signals, hazard lights and brake lights all use the same circuit to the bulbs out front and rear, correct? normally the hazards will flash the signal indicator. what is different about the digital dash wiring?
call me old and dumb, I can take it. lol.

[jwhotrod]

I've wired a bunch of car, and i will say this. the indicator light feeds in your dash are connected to the turn signal wires for the front lights so they are not lit when you step on the brakes. when you turn the turn signal on the switch disengages the rear turn/stop wire from the brake post and connects it to the front wire and the flasher. when you turn on the hazard on it disconnects both rear turn/brake wires from the brakes and connects to the hazard flasher. so if you hook everything up to the color coded wires everything will be find and your hazard button will light in the turn signal indicators in your dash just fine. what is in your idditt column is a standard GM turn/hazzard/brake switch do not take it apart its not neccesary. Good luck

[mr48chev]

Normally the high beam indicator light is between the left and right turn indicator lights.

I'm thinking that if that is a hazzard warning light it is designed to work with a system like on a lot of the mid 90's or later cars like my BMW 528I has where there is a totally separate from the turn signal system hazzard flasher switch. That switch is on the console where the dog steps on it and turns the flashers on.

And no it is positively not in your interest to take things apart to attempt to figure out how to make it work. The only other use I could see for it is if you were to have a park brake setup that a switch could be rigged on so you were reminded that the park brake was on when you turned the key on.

[jweb]

Originally Posted by TX3100Guy

I suspect the answer to this question is that there is no answer, but I have found this forum full of talented and knowledgeable individuals, so I thought I would take a chance.

For quick background, I am installing a new American Autowire "classic upgrade" wiring harness and an Ididit steering column. Both the column and the harness have the capability to support a Hazard light option. There is a knob on the column to turn on the hazards, and the wiring harness supports this. I'm also installing a new electronic speedometer that has a dash light to show when the hazard lights are illuminated. However, there is no dedicated wire in the harness to connect to this feature of the speedo.

I reached out to Autowire and they confirmed that there is no dedicated wire for a hazard light indication on the dash and that "the brown wire" on the harness that connects to the steering column is always hot and if I were to splice into this wire, the dash light would be light constantly. I suspect this means that the switch on the column must introduce a ground circuit to turn on the hazards.

My question is to any knowledgeable electricians in the group, is there any other way I could get an indication of the hazards on with this setup?

Probably a dumb question but,
Are you sure the extra light is for a hazard indicator? The extra light on most gauges is for when you're headlights are on bright.

Usually both of the turn signal indicators flash for the hazard lights.

[TX3100Guy]

Originally Posted by jweb

Probably a dumb question but,
Are you sure the extra light is for a hazard indicator? The extra light on most gauges is for when you're headlights are on bright.

Usually both of the turn signal indicators flash for the hazard lights.

The harness also has a wire for high beams and the speedo/tach also has an indicator for high beams.

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

I'm thinking that if that is a hazzard warning light it is designed to work with a system like on a lot of the mid 90's or later cars like my BMW 528I has where there is a totally separate from the turn signal system hazzard flasher switch. That switch is on the console where the dog steps on it and turns the flashers on.

fun useless fact. the reason why BMW (and other german cars) are like this is because in europe there is a requirement to illuminate the indicators on the road side when you are stopped but not having an emergency. this is done with the key off and the turn signal pulled the correct direction to illuminate the front rear and side (also a european thing) indicators so that road traffic can see and anticipate a vehicle stopped where normally there wouldnt be one.

its called a "split parking light system" on those cars, and when you install alarm systems you need two relays to keep the systems separate, lots of lazy alarm guys would only hook up half and only half the lights would blink when arm and disarm. even more lazier guys would just tie left and right together and both sides would flash when indicating a turn. diodes were also used but relays were more reliable.

it occurs to me you could use a two relay system to combine both left and right lights being on (such when the hazards are on), using the left light relay to energize the right light relay and finding a "true" condition on the right output a third hazard output. the relays would keep the left and right indicators separate and only thing you would notice is an extra relay quietly clicking when turning left.

i havent ever seen a hazard indicator that wasnt the switch like mr 48 said. i think the function of having the extra indicator would be superfluous because like jweb and others have suggested, both turn indicators (usually) flash when hazards are activated. that said, the heart wants what it wants, and if you want a diagram of two relays I can whip one up, its very simple.

edit: thinking about it, I think i can do it with one relay. left turn to 85, ground to 86, right turn to 87, your hazard light wire to 30. everything isolated. the only thing i can think of that would prevent this is having small side indicators (Usually the 5w) that are tied in to both park and turn. you shouldnt, only factory gms do this on later model stuff but that is a limitation.

[TX3100Guy]

Originally Posted by joedoh

fun useless fact. the reason why BMW (and other german cars) are like this is because in europe there is a requirement to illuminate the indicators on the road side when you are stopped but not having an emergency. this is done with the key off and the turn signal pulled the correct direction to illuminate the front rear and side (also a european thing) indicators so that road traffic can see and anticipate a vehicle stopped where normally there wouldnt be one.

its called a "split parking light system" on those cars, and when you install alarm systems you need two relays to keep the systems separate, lots of lazy alarm guys would only hook up half and only half the lights would blink when arm and disarm. even more lazier guys would just tie left and right together and both sides would flash when indicating a turn. diodes were also used but relays were more reliable.

it occurs to me you could use a two relay system to combine both left and right lights being on (such when the hazards are on), using the left light relay to energize the right light relay and finding a "true" condition on the right output a third hazard output. the relays would keep the left and right indicators separate and only thing you would notice is an extra relay quietly clicking when turning left.

i havent ever seen a hazard indicator that wasnt the switch like mr 48 said. i think the function of having the extra indicator would be superfluous because like jweb and others have suggested, both turn indicators (usually) flash when hazards are activated. that said, the heart wants what it wants, and if you want a diagram of two relays I can whip one up, its very simple.

edit: thinking about it, I think i can do it with one relay. left turn to 85, ground to 86, right turn to 87, your hazard light wire to 30. everything isolated.

Having had an old Porsche and BMW, I'm familiar with the lighting situation with the parking lights that you mentioned and it was explained to me exactly as you indicated.

Your solution to getting to a hazard light indicator by using two relays is ingenious, but in the end I agreed that having both turn indicators flashing was good enough. Thanks for providing a solution.

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by TX3100Guy

Your solution to getting to a hazard light indicator by using two relays is ingenious, but in the end I agreed that having both turn indicators flashing was good enough.

i did it in one! check the edit

glad you got comfortable without added work!

[TX3100Guy]

Originally Posted by joedoh

i did it in one! check the edit

glad you got comfortable without added work!

Crap,,,,,LOL. Now I need to try this.
Posted via Mobile Device

[dsraven]

the last euro car I worked on was an audi and it was the haz switch at fault. it is a stand alone switch in the middle of the dash with it's own indicator light. for a couple hundred bucks, a bunch of time wiring and some tylenol for your head after, you could have one too.
flashing signal indicators is the wat to go, haha
I remember helping my buddy with the same issue on his 54 but don't remember where the indicator lights actually ended up. possibly on the clamp on signal switch.

[TX3100Guy]

Originally Posted by joedoh

i did it in one! check the edit

glad you got comfortable without added work!

Relay will be delivered by Amazon later today and I will have it wired up tomorrow morning. Many many thanks.

[Getter-Done]

Originally Posted by joedoh

fun useless fact. the reason why BMW (and other german cars) are like this is because in europe there is a requirement to illuminate the indicators on the road side when you are stopped but not having an emergency. this is done with the key off and the turn signal pulled the correct direction to illuminate the front rear and side (also a european thing) indicators so that road traffic can see and anticipate a vehicle stopped where normally there wouldnt be one.

its called a "split parking light system" on those cars, and when you install alarm systems you need two relays to keep the systems separate, lots of lazy alarm guys would only hook up half and only half the lights would blink when arm and disarm. even more lazier guys would just tie left and right together and both sides would flash when indicating a turn. diodes were also used but relays were more reliable.

it occurs to me you could use a two relay system to combine both left and right lights being on (such when the hazards are on), using the left light relay to energize the right light relay and finding a "true" condition on the right output a third hazard output. the relays would keep the left and right indicators separate and only thing you would notice is an extra relay quietly clicking when turning left.

i havent ever seen a hazard indicator that wasnt the switch like mr 48 said. i think the function of having the extra indicator would be superfluous because like jweb and others have suggested, both turn indicators (usually) flash when hazards are activated. that said, the heart wants what it wants, and if you want a diagram of two relays I can whip one up, its very simple.

edit: thinking about it, I think i can do it with one relay. left turn to 85, ground to 86, right turn to 87, your hazard light wire to 30. everything isolated. the only thing i can think of that would prevent this is having small side indicators (Usually the 5w) that are tied in to both park and turn. you shouldnt, only factory gms do this on later model stuff but that is a limitation.

And This is why we could use a (Like) Button

Just Kidding

Great Info

[TX3100Guy]

Originally Posted by Getter-Done

And This is why we could use a (Like) Button

Just Kidding

Great Info

I agree 100%.
Posted via Mobile Device

[TX3100Guy]

The relay showed up yesterday and today I began wiring it into the dash and the new wiring harness.



It will take a few more days for me to finalize enough wiring to put the new speedometer and tachometer into place to test all the lights. But thanks for providing the ultimate, simple, solution to enhancing the functionality of the new gauges.