Bagged woes

[OneOffStroker]

Originally Posted by joedoh

ok, oneoffstroker, I need to see some pictures of this ride height setup. every bit of research into leveling systems I see shows it requires two leveling valves per wheel (or two per axle if you are teed), two solenoid valves per wheel (or axle) and a pressure switch added to each wheel (or axle). the only way I see it working with one leveling valve and two solenoids per wheel (I havent seen how it works with only one solenoid yet because when I do a truth table the tank will exhaust through the dump valve if you only have one solenoid). I even looked at kneeling bus system diagrams and they are even more complex.

please, can you show us a couple pictures of your setup for clarity? it sounds promising!

I don't have any pictures now, and I am horrible about posting them, but I'll see what I can do.

I am quite sure that you have been looking into electric leveling systems, hence the multiple valves per wheel and so on. It does not have to be that hard, trust me.

About thinking that the valve just dumps the air from the tank, it absolutely does not. When the dump portion actuates, it vents the bag, but closes the supply. Think of it as a SPDT electrical switch, but in a manual pneumatic setting.

I hope that makes some sense.

Originally Posted by 59chev

Following..

Alot of us are intregued by this manual - automatic leveling option.

As I understand it, this would only work with the height control valves that have an integrated dump valve. When the dump valve is activated, it dumps the air in the bags and closes the intake valve at the same time. When the dump valve is closed, the height control valve returns to normal mode and re-inflates the bags until the truck comes back up to ride height.

YOU ARE EXACTLY CORRECT.

Originally Posted by e015475

I took a stab at drawing a schematic of what the OP described. Would appreciate any feedback from the OP as to its correctness-


When there's air pressure supplied from the tank to the pilot air port on the height control valve, the height control valve will function to regulate the height of the airbag (the red line on the schematic is the pilot/dump air controlled by the TW-1 valve)

If the pilot air is removed, the height control valve dumps the air out of the airbag.

Is this correct?

CORRECT.

Originally Posted by e015475

The OPs description of the height control valve wouldn't have any solenoids either, and would be a 'set it and forget it' system, with the option to dump the airbags with the TW1.

But with the OPs system, the only way you can change ride height is to adjust the linkage to the height valves, which is ok with me. Once i get it set to a height I like, I'd likely just leave it there.

CORRECT

Originally Posted by 47 Fasttoys

Sounds like a good system. I do adjust mine a little but I also load my truck on a regular basis as I pull a camper or boat and load all kinds of junk on the back so in my case I need the ability to adjust. My only question would be with the ride height dump valves do you end up with alot of compressor cycling because the valves are making regular adjustments? by this I mean what happens when you go into a long sweeping corner? The more I think about it with this system I would not have to adgust for load it would do it for me, correct?

You are correct in that the system could constantly use air when the suspension flexes, but minute changes aren't that big of a deal, so compressor cycling is about the same as it is with a fancy high-dollar Accuair system. I want to be frank here and mention that I am not dogging on Accuair. In fact, I have their Gen 1 setup in my '50 F1, and will be buying a new one for my '57. Some projects are worth spending the money on...

Also, yes, you set it and forget it. If you add load to your truck, it will automatically compensate and air back up.

[59chev]

This thread is great!!!

The only thing I am still struggling with is the whole Normally open vs Normally closed thing. Doesn't normally open mean that it requires pressure on the pilot side to dump the valve? I guess when it comes down to it it doesn't really matter as long as you provide the correct signal via the pilot circuit.

For example:

http://veritastechsoft.com/dealer_tr...mp-valve-mack/

Am I missing something?

[joedoh]

yeah this is a neat solution for sure.

it was my theory (and I havent used this system) that you need a NO valve only because when the truck is dumped using a NC valve means it would have to be energized the whole time its dumped. I could be wrong, which is why I asked for details. the only way I saw it working with a NC was with a second NC valve in line so that when you dumped the pilot air it stayed at zero.

[mongocanfly]

59 chev...A normally open valve is a valve that in its non operating mode is fully open and requires constant power input to close it.take power awayand it goes back to full open..a normally closed valve works just the opposite..its fully closed until you supply constant input power to open it..take power away and it goes back to a closed position..

[59chev]

I agree that the ideal situation is to remove the pilot air in order to signal the dump valve to dump the air. What I'm confused by is in researching these valves, the description of Normally Open says it needs air to dump.

This seems opposite to what everyone is saying based on the description of normally open

See attached image of the valve I linked to.

[joedoh]

oh I see what you are asking. it was oneoffstroker that said flipping the switch REMOVES the pilot air, so that was the assumption I worked with. looks like the valve you found works the other way, requires pressure to dump.

this adds a wrinkle to finding leaks in the system, because if you lay it out and have a leak in the pilot system, you may come out in the morning and find your truck at ride height which to anyone who has had an airbag system, thats a good problem to have because usually you find it flat on the ground with no air in the system

[mongocanfly]

Yeah that don't sound right..requiring pilot pressure to open a valve means the valve has to be normally closed ..take away the pilot pressure and the valve closes..

[OneOffStroker]

Originally Posted by joedoh

oh I see what you are asking. it was oneoffstroker that said flipping the switch REMOVES the pilot air, so that was the assumption I worked with. looks like the valve you found works the other way, requires pressure to dump.

Yeah, that's my bad. I misspoke. Sorry about that, it's just counterintuitive, so I guess I wrote what seems to make sense instead of the proper, albeit weird, operation.

I hope someone else adopts this system for their truck. It's pretty legit.

[Foot Stomper]

Originally Posted by IndyBowtie

Alright need some bag advise. I fully understand every person that replies will have a diff answer but that's ok.
Have a full manual system on the '48. 8 valves and wired controller in cab.
My problem is getting the truck level, side to side at ride height. I fight it every time I drive the truck.
What is the best method for ride height leveling, outside of a AccuAir sys?
Seems that having the 2 on the rear for example, plumbed individually, raise and exhaust at diff rates. Thus I Am always out of level side to side. Thought I had it perfect the other day.based off of quick look and the gauge pressures..got home and went to the back to check...one side was quite a bit higher than the other. That's a good look!
Thinking about putting a tee inline and plumb the rear together , as well as the front. But then you depend on the bags sitting at the same height at a given pressure and they probably won't!
Am I doomed to spend another grand and get the ride height controlled sys?

Stock suspension never had these issues... perhaps you messed up a perfectly designed suspension?

[59chev]

Originally Posted by OneOffStroker

Yeah, that's my bad. I misspoke. Sorry about that, it's just counterintuitive, so I guess I wrote what seems to make sense instead of the proper, albeit weird, operation.

I hope someone else adopts this system for their truck. It's pretty legit.

No worries man. It seemed backwards to me too. That's why I was confused. I just wanted to make sure I got the right valve when the time comes. I am really interested to try this system.
Thanks again for posting this idea!!

[ADchevys]

Just ordered my valve, should have it tomorrow. Sence I'm only bagged in the rear I really liked this idea. I will let everyone know how this works out.

[59chev]

Originally Posted by ADchevys

Just ordered my valve, should have it tomorrow. Sence I'm only bagged in the rear I really liked this idea. I will let everyone know how this works out.

Cool!! Really interested to hear how this works out.

[ADchevys]

Just got done installing the vale. I'm think I'm going to like the simplicity of this setup. Thanks for the idea OneOffStroker. Here's a short video, the truck will drop faster when there's more weight on it. The valve I used takes air pressure to dump.

[IMG][/IMG]

[ADchevys]

Here's another picture. The port on the front is the dump, the first port on top is to the bags, and second port on top is the air in.
[IMG][/IMG]

[joedoh]

great video! thanks for posting!

[LS2 67GTO]

Originally Posted by ADchevys

Here's another picture. The port on the front is the dump, the first port on top is to the bags, and second port on top is the air in.
[IMG][/IMG]

Thanks for posting pics. Do you have a part number for the valve you used?

[ADchevys]

Originally Posted by LS2 67GTO

Thanks for posting pics. Do you have a part number for the valve you used?

http://www.anythingtruck.com/product/270-E11870.html
I bought mine local, but this is the valve I used.

[OneOffStroker]

ADchevys, great video and pic. I'm glad I was able to convince at least one person to try this setup! Maybe if it gains popularity, I can be the namesake for the mod. lol Like, 'Stroker's Manual Ride-Height System' or something like that.

LS267GTO, here is the valve I used when I did mine. http://www.ebay.com/itm/310636490872...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[f.flujan]

Old thread but really like this. Any updates on functionality

[dsraven]

haldex valve with pilot port

this is usually "aired up" in order to dump the air springs. truckers use this to lower suspension so they can back under the trailer they are connecting to. less time and energy spent cranking the trailer dolly legs up.

https://www.haldex.com/globalassets/...ols/l31186.pdf

[f.flujan]

dsraven, can you send me some pics of it installed in the front. really considering it. like the simplicity and really seems like a reliable system
thank you

[f.flujan]

Also, if running these at each corner would making a manifold for the dump valve be functional (i just want one dump valve in the cab). How much psi is needed at the pilot dump is what I'm asking pretty much. thanks again

[dsraven]

I don't have a pic, I have just worked on the big trucks that use this type of system. they are used for everything from air ride cabs to truck suspension or trailer air ride.
for a manifold, yes, you would simply need a dump valve on the dash or wherever that would supply system air (greater than 60 psi and up to 130 psi) out to a manifold that would run to each valve. an electric solenoid valve would also work so the air lines could stay outside the cab and just have wire run to the dump valve from an in cab switch. from there T off and run a line to the front, where it could T again to each side valve, and then the same for the rear. less air line equals less air required to fill the lines so running an air line from each valve to the manifold would take more air and also more room. less air line would mean a quicker response and less compressor run time. a larger line to the front and rear could be T'd at each end to smaller line for each valve if you think it warrants that. sometimes a slower dump is better. you could also do a dual system so you can dump just the front or the rear. this is what you see city busses do when they "kneel" for handicap access. but thats up to you and your wants/needs. these valves would be available online or at your local highway truck parts shop. even some truck stops may have them. pretty common valve because lots more big trucks are air ride these days, but, you could also ask at the truck parts place if there is a more common valve. just a bit of time on the phone. hope this helps.

here is a link to the haldex site which shows a bunch of control valves.
http://www.heightcontrolvalve.com/haldex-19.htm


here is a link explaining the normally open or normally closed dump valve options and how they work
http://www.plazafleetparts.com/air-s...ol-valves.html

[dsraven]

another thing to watch for is where to mount the valves. a single valve mounted in the middle of the axle could do the whole rear end but not be specific to each side. less messing around with getting them syncronized so one doesn't fight the other. if you need room for rear dump exhaust pipes or whatever then that may also dictate the valve mounting and air line routing. always try to cover the plastic line with something to stop chaffing unless it is tied down well. some heat shielding may also be required if close enough to exhaust systems.